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Post by disciple4life on Oct 24, 2017 8:47:44 GMT -6
Here is the link to the chart if you click on it a box will open at the bottom left of your screen click on it and it should open- someone let me know if it works. ![]() ![]() Hello RT. I love the chart -- very nice work. I converted it into a PDF file, so that we can actually see your chart on the Thread. I hope that's OK/ ??  |
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Post by mike on Oct 24, 2017 8:48:17 GMT -6
rt Ive saved your document and tried to load it several times, but my failure with the tech and as a moderator is apparent 
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Post by rt on Oct 24, 2017 9:07:16 GMT -6
I edited my post, changing to a pdf disciple4life , I think my link works now. I have the crucifixion taking place on Thursday. I tend believe that Jesus did in fact celebrate passover as the scriptures say he did on the day that scripture mandates. Not sure about the two different calendar idea. But this I do know, that there were differences between the sects of the Sadducees and the Pharisees. The Pharisees believed that the oral law was equal in weight to the written law, while the Saddicees were opposed to the practices of the oral law and believed the only requirements were those contained in the written word. Josephus tells us that 250,000 lambs were sacrificed in the temple on Passover in 65 AD, mathematically it would take 17 days around the clock to accomplish this. Some believe that Josephus exaggerated the number. But given the fact that not everyone followed the practices of the Pharisees, there would have been many that would have sacrificed their lambs where they dwelled as instructed by God in Exodus. As it turns out those from Galilee were not fans of the Pharisees, certainly we know Jesus was not. Also Jesus in order to fulfill the barley wave offering as the first fruits of the barley harvest, would have had to have been raised to life on Sunday. Mark makes it clear: |
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Post by disciple4life on Oct 24, 2017 9:26:47 GMT -6
It's very good work, rt . ;-) I really appreciate your insight and perspectives. This timeline solves one of the huge issues/ holes in the Friday theory - that being the problem with the 100 lbs of spices.
Jews couldn't carry or prepare 100 lbs of spices on the Feast/Sabbath.
Scripture says they rested on the Sabbath [High Sabbath being 1st Day of Unleavened Bread **Catholics' misunderstanding of word Shabbat.] **This is impossible to rest on the [weekly ] Sabbath Friday evening to Saturday and then buy spices after the Sabbath, with a Friday Crucifixion.
One of the biggest things that many people miss in the issue regarding Christ's birth, and death is that people most often think about the Day of the Week - [Traditional view of Friday] but they don't think about the year. Because of the Hebrew lunar calendar, you can't have a Friday Crucifixion and year AD 30 or 31. Likewise, you can't hold to a Wednesday crucifix and still have a AD 33 year date - due to the Hebrew lunar cycle. It's one of the six irreconcilable problems of the Friday view. The Friday crucifixion is AD 33, which contradicts scripture - Ezra, and we also have the Hostile Witness - The Miracles of the Temple, confirmed by both versions of the Talmud, puts the Crucifix at AD 31. **40 years inclusive counting to the Destruction of the Temple in 70 AD.
There were two goats chosen on Day of Atonement. The one was the Lord's goat [which was sacrificed], and the other was the scapegoat, that was turned out into the wilderness. A piece of scarlet wool / string was tied onto the horns of the scapegoat. The scarlet wool turned white, and it was a visual symbol to the people that their sins were atoned. Every single year for 40 years, the scarlet cord on the 'scapegoat' did not turn white. Isaiah 1:18
“Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool."
Though Jews vehemently deny this meaning or this connection between Christ's work and the scapegoat, no one denies the events confirmed by the Talmud. - This is the Hostile Witness- They don't support Christianity, and they see Christians as the ones who perverted Judaism, and they gain nothing from it - this is why a Hostile Witness is one of the most reliable of all.
Many people hold a 'traditional' Friday view, but don't realize that it contradicts scripture from Ezra's prophesy. |
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Post by Rick on Oct 24, 2017 11:07:25 GMT -6
Here is the link to the chart if you click on it a box will open at the bottom left of your screen click on it and it should open- someone let me know if it works. ![]() ![]() Very nice chart rt, still going over it but you've certainly done a nice job |
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Post by nana on Oct 24, 2017 13:54:37 GMT -6
John 20:7-And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/jhn/20/1/ss1/s_1017001Notice the napkin was not with the other linen and that is was (was is past tense). Wrapped means rolled, folded. This is significant because this is how burial cloths were kept before/prior to someones death and meant he was telling people he was no longer dead and has risen. This is also Jewish custom. |
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Post by nana on Oct 24, 2017 14:27:47 GMT -6
It's very good work, rt . ;-) I really appreciate your insight and perspectives. This timeline solves one of the huge issues/ holes in the Friday theory - that being the problem with the 100 lbs of spices.
Jews couldn't carry or prepare 100 lbs of spices on the Feast/Sabbath.
Scripture says they rested on the Sabbath [High Sabbath being 1st Day of Unleavened Bread **Catholics' misunderstanding of word Shabbat.] **This is impossible to rest on the [weekly ] Sabbath Friday evening to Saturday and then buy spices after the Sabbath, with a Friday Crucifixion.
One of the biggest things that many people miss in the issue regarding Christ's birth, and death is that people most often think about the Day of the Week - [Traditional view of Friday] but they don't think about the year. Because of the Hebrew lunar calendar, you can't have a Friday Crucifixion and year AD 30 or 31. Likewise, you can't hold to a Wednesday crucifix and still have a AD 33 year date - due to the Hebrew lunar cycle. It's one of the six irreconcilable problems of the Friday view. The Friday crucifixion is AD 33, which contradicts scripture - Ezra, and we also have the Hostile Witness - The Miracles of the Temple, confirmed by both versions of the Talmud, puts the Crucifix at AD 31. **40 years inclusive counting to the Destruction of the Temple in 70 AD.
There were two goats chosen on Day of Atonement. The one was the Lord's goat [which was sacrificed], and the other was the scapegoat, that was turned out into the wilderness. A piece of scarlet wool / string was tied onto the horns of the scapegoat. The scarlet wool turned white, and it was a visual symbol to the people that their sins were atoned. Every single year for 40 years, the scarlet cord on the 'scapegoat' did not turn white. Isaiah 1:18
“Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool."
Though Jews vehemently deny this meaning or this connection between Christ's work and the scapegoat, no one denies the events confirmed by the Talmud. - This is the Hostile Witness- They don't support Christianity, and they see Christians as the ones who perverted Judaism, and they gain nothing from it - this is why a Hostile Witness is one of the most reliable of all.
Many people hold a 'traditional' Friday view, but don't realize that it contradicts scripture from Ezra's prophesy. Exactly, it was an "High Day", not a regular weekly Friday/Saturday Sabbath, it was a Feast day.
John 19:31-The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
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Post by MikeTaft on Oct 24, 2017 15:02:46 GMT -6
My question is wasn't Jesus breaking unleavened bread on the night he shared the "Last Supper" with His disciples? Jesus Himself was the unleavened bread. That is why He said, "Take, eat, this is my body that was broken for you. Do this in remembrance of me." If I'm not mistaken, a Jewish day starts the evening prior, as we see in Genesis after each day "there was evening, and there was morning, the ____ day." We also see this mentioned in Daniel 8:26. So with Jesus having the Passover meal on the prior evening of 14th Nisan, following that early morning being apprehended in Gethsemane, tried that morning by the Sanhedrin, Herod, and Pilate. Crucified at 9AM, and died at 3PM 6 hours later. Then taken off the cross before the start of the 15th of Nisan. He was then buried as the Unleavened Bread that could not be corrupted in the grave. Then Jesus raised from the dead 3 1/2 days later (Sign of Jonah!) on the 18th of Nisan as the First Fruits of the resurrection!
Did I miss anything? lol.
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Post by disciple4life on Oct 24, 2017 15:25:00 GMT -6
Hello, guys and gals. I found this excellent fragment from www.Hebrew4Christians.com Messiah as the Beginning of Harvest. I don't want to leave anyone out, but this really seems to support confirm the view shared by rt, and brad and I think kjh. (Thursday crucifixion). Shout out to all my peeps/watchmen who have Stary Night or Stellarium software, ?? Could anyone check the sky for Thursday Passover. I know that according to Stellarium, Wednesday Passover was 31 AD.
This is not my research - but it's very good. I highly recommend reading the full article. There is also a good chart that corresponds to RT, and others, cwood85 - 3 days and 3 nights. ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------- “First, it is vital to understand that the Jewish day begins at sundown and ends at twilight the following day. [Sunset to sunset] . . . The chart above therefore indicates the following chronology:
1. Yeshua was crucified and buried on Nisan 14, a Thursday afternoon. [ ½ day] This was also the “Preparation Day” for the Sabbath of Passover that would begin after sundown that same day.
2. He was in the tomb Nisan 15 [from sundown until twilight Friday = 1 day] and
3. He was in the tomb Nisan 16 [from sundown until twilight Saturday = 1 day] and
4. He was was also in the tomb on Nisan 16 [After sundown Saturday = ½ day] BUT,
5. He later rose from the dead that day – Nisan 17 (Before sunrise on Sunday morning)
It is also important to understand that there are more Sabbaths in the Jewish year than there are “seventh days” on the Jewish calendar. For instance, Passover and the other holidays are regarded as Sabbaths, and therefore in Mark’s gospel, the women are said to have “come to the tomb after the Sabbaths” ( σαββατων- a plural noun) which indicates that both Passover (Nisan 15) and the following day (Nisan 16, the seventh day of the week ) were regarded as Sabbath days, (see the Greek text for Mark 16:2)
If you add these up, you will get 1/2 + 1 + 1 + 1/2 = 3 days and 3 nights. (Matthew 12:40) He therefore was crucified on Thursday, Nisan 14 (before sundown) and was resurrected on Sunday, Nisan 17 (before sunrise) on the third day (Luke 24:45-46). The disciples then encountered the risen Lord on Nisan 17, a Sunday morning. ( Matthew 28:1-10).” www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Spring_Holidays/First_Fruits/first_fruits.html
This part was AWESOME !! This here is truth. "The most important thing -- the matter of "first importance" -- is that - Messiah died for our sins,
- Was buried,
- was raised again on the third day, (I Corin 15:3-4)
Good people sometimes argue over the details, but risk missing the greater point. Yeshua completely atoned for our sins, and his resurrection validated that God the father accepted his sacrifice. It was God the Father who raised Yeshua in victory, (Galatians 1:1, Rom 10:9) and those who trust in Him are justified by Faith. Yeshua was delivered for our offenses and raised again for our justification" (Rom 4:25) As Yeshua the Messiah said, "Because I am alive, you also will live." (John 14:19)
Hallelujah!. Maranatha !!!
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Post by disciple4life on Oct 24, 2017 16:17:18 GMT -6
My question is wasn't Jesus breaking unleavened bread on the night he shared the "Last Supper" with His disciples? Jesus Himself was the unleavened bread. That is why He said, "Take, eat, this is my body that was broken for you. Do this in remembrance of me." If I'm not mistaken, a Jewish day starts the evening prior, as we see in Genesis after each day "there was evening, and there was morning, the ____ day." We also see this mentioned in Daniel 8:26. So with Jesus having the Passover meal on the prior evening of 14th Nisan, following that early morning being apprehended in Gethsemane, tried that morning by the Sanhedrin, Herod, and Pilate. Crucified at 9AM, and died at 3PM 6 hours later. Then taken off the cross before the start of the 15th of Nisan. He was then buried as the Unleavened Bread that could not be corrupted in the grave. Then Jesus raised from the dead 3 1/2 days later (Sign of Jonah!) on the 18th of Nisan as the First Fruits of the resurrection! Did I miss anything? lol. Mike Taft - My question is wasn't Jesus breaking unleavened bread on the night he shared the "Last Supper" with His disciples? Exactly, my friend. Spot on. ;-) The 'last supper" was a Jewish Seder meal. Luke 22:13-15 English Standard Version (ESV)
13 "And they went and found it just as he had told them, and they prepared the Passover.
Institution of the Lord's Supper
14 And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. 15 And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer." Some speculate that they didn't actually eat roasted lamb, since Christ would fulfill the feast the next day - but this is an argument from silence. We can't argue what the text doesn't say. What we do know - see RT's great post - rt ;-) Is that according to Josephus, there were more than 200,000 Jews in Jerusalem in 60 AD, and it was physically impossible to sacrifice this many lambs in one day. (Even with a different group of Jews sacrificing the lamb in their homes). We also know that there were multiple Jewish sects then, Pharisees, and Sadducees, and others, and that they used two different calendars. According to a personal friend, and Bible scholar - professor of Greek and Hebrew, Dr Alan P Brown - Jesus likely ate the Passover meal on one calendar reckoning, and the next day, was crucified on the other day, fulfilling the feast perfectly. Some also guess that He simply celebrated it 'early' with His disciples.
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Post by disciple4life on Oct 24, 2017 16:24:08 GMT -6
To all my dear brothers and sisters -- It is such a pleasure and a joy to be a fellow watchman with you. This is what it's about - this is why we watch - This is why we try to be alert and guess when the Messiah comes again. I hope this blesses you. It's not about being right, - it's about being justified by his blood and being faithful to what He called us to do. 
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Post by nana on Oct 28, 2017 13:34:19 GMT -6
On What Day did Jesus Die and When did He Resurrect?
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Post by disciple4life on Oct 29, 2017 2:16:49 GMT -6
On What Day did Jesus Die and When did He Resurrect? Hello nana . Thanks for the video. Just a few thoughts on this. - His study is very solid. He harmonizes lots of verses.
- the thunder storm was amazing as he's teaching about the crucifixion. It's actually raining here, on Sunday morning, so I thought it was here. Then, I heard it again. Very cool.
 - He repeats a LOT. Skip ahead to about the 16:00 mark.
- He does a very good job explaining two of the key problems for the Erroneous Friday Crucifixion myth - the part about the spices and the 3 days and 3 nights. I wish he would have addressed the other 5.
- ***About the 18:00 minute mark, he says that Sunday is the Sabbath, I thought "Oh brother", but he simply misspoke, and then caught his mistake and corrects it on the Whiteboard. Whheeeeewwww.
- He seems obsessed with the "KJV Only" and this is distracting from his overall presentation, but I'd recommend it, and I'd give him a 4 stars.
 After you've watched one video with paulwatchmandawson - he sets the bar so high, everything else doesn't measure up.
Here's another link for a very good chart, and his presentation is also very good. Zachary Bauer. Much shorter, makes a lot of the same points, with less repetition. www.new2torah.com/2011/04/easter-fraud-chart/ This is the link for the PDF shown below. I saved it as a JPEG file. This is the link for his video - which I also highly recommend.
Maranatha.
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Post by nana on Oct 29, 2017 7:45:48 GMT -6
On What Day did Jesus Die and When did He Resurrect? Hello nana . Thanks for the video. Just a few thoughts on this. - His study is very solid. He harmonizes lots of verses.
- the thunder storm was amazing as he's teaching about the crucifixion. It's actually raining here, on Sunday morning, so I thought it was here. Then, I heard it again. Very cool.
- He repeats a LOT. Skip ahead to about the 16:00 mark.
- He does a very good job explaining two of the key problems for the Erroneous Friday Crucifixion myth - the part about the spices and the 3 days and 3 nights. I wish he would have addressed the other 5.
- ***About the 18:00 minute mark, he says that Sunday is the Sabbath, I thought "Oh brother", but he simply misspoke, and then caught his mistake and corrects it on the Whiteboard. Whheeeeewwww.
- He seems obsessed with the "KJV Only" and this is distracting from his overall presentation, but I'd recommend it, and I'd give him a 4 stars. After you've watched one video with paulwatchmandawson - he sets the bar so high, everything else doesn't measure up.
Here's another link for a very good chart, and his presentation is also very good. Zachary Bauer. Much shorter, makes a lot of the same points, with less repetition. www.new2torah.com/2011/04/easter-fraud-chart/ This is the link for the PDF shown below. I saved it as a JPEG file. This is the link for his video - which I also highly recommend.
Maranatha.
The video you posted was right to the point and very well done, thank you, I saved the link.
Lev chapter 23 makes the whole bible fall into place and makes things make sense, understandable. Also a Jewish wedding.
These are key points which God showed me years ago.
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Post by rt on Oct 29, 2017 14:16:41 GMT -6
One thing I might add to this discussion, is that we make the assumption that Jesus has to fulfill all aspects of each feast at precisely the time of their practice. This is our way of thinking of fulfillment. As others have mentioned Jesus explains in His own words how he was fulfilling Passover
He not only fulfilled the Passover in this way and instituted a New Feast that was then known as the Lord's Supper or Communion as we know it, He also fulfilled the feast of Unleavened Bread. The Passover was celebrated in remembrance of God "passing over" the homes of the Jews who had painted the blood of the Passover Lamb on their doorposts so that death would not take the firstborn of their children. Unleavened bread commemorates the hast at which the Israelites then fled from Egypt, they did not have time to bake bread with leaven and therefore ate unleavened cakes. It just so happens that these two feasts are tied together, and the term Passover was often used to describe the whole week of the feast of unleavened bread as well.
Paul talks about how we are to celebrate the feast (I would assume he refers to the Lord's supper) with unleavened bread.
Paul had just finished reprimanding the Corinthians for not dealing with a sin issue among them, he tells them to remove the wicked man from among themselves, the old leaven and the leaven of malice and wickedness is a reference to the wicked man residing among them, who is not to celebrate the Lord's supper, but those who are sincere and of God's truth are considered unleavened as Paul says is a fact and the reason they are is because Christ the Passover was sacrificed to cleanse them from unrighteousness.
Jesus said that He came to fulfill the Law, He doesn't say that He came to fulfill only portions of the law
My belief is that He fulfilled it all, as a testimony to the Jews. By suggesting that Jesus has to fulfill the law of each feast exactly at the moment each event was practiced we put Christ in a box. Jesus didn't have to be offered as the Passover Lamb at the same time that the lambs were being slaughtered to fulfill the Passover. He told His disciples in advance how He was going to fulfill it, through the sacrifice of His blood and body in death. He didn't have to be born during the feast of Tabernacles (though some claim He was)to fulfill it, but He did because He was Emmanuel "God with us", God tabernacling among men, He didn't have to enter into the Heavenly Holy place as our high priest on the day of Atonement to offer sacrifice for our sins on the Day of Atonement, but clearly Hebrews explains that He fulfilled this. We need to stop trying to put Jesus into a box of our own making.
Just because some writer somewhere along the line said that Jesus fulfilled the spring feasts precisely at the time they were celebrated and He will do the same with the fall feasts and people latched onto it and have repeated it so often that we believe it must be true doesn't mean it is true.
I am not trying to be argumentative, I would encourage you to read God's word for what it says and do not put what celebrated Christian authors have said on a level playing field with God's word, they are just men. Yes they often have great insight because they have studied God's word, but be studious, check what they say with what God's word actually says, many times they get it wrong. Many times right too. Just exercise caution before jumping into what some claim to be doctrine with both feet.
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If you click the 'quote' icon, up by the 'like' button, in the far upper right, is a separate button that says "Add Attachment". 
