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Post by mike on Dec 20, 2018 10:49:25 GMT -6
By the same token many of the Palestinians -- could be descendants of Abraham -- via Ishmael -- and THUS still be counted as Father Abraham sons.........
You think so KJ? How do we then apply Isaac as the seed of the promise? Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 20, 2018 11:18:13 GMT -6
mike, because Jesus was to come through the line of Isaac, not Ishmael. It was not that Ishmael would not have a chance at the same Promise. This was a law thing (ways and means) that God established, so that man would see that the future Messiah came according to that family line. Sonship mandate...
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Post by mike on Dec 20, 2018 12:41:07 GMT -6
mike, because Jesus was to come through the line of Isaac, not Ishmael. It was not that Ishmael would not have a chance at the same Promise. This was a law thing (ways and means) that God established, so that man would see that the future Messiah came according to that family line. Sonship mandate... I believe I understand your point here but I am referring to the actual dirt not the lineage of Messiah. Ishmael is not considered in the below, therefore when referring to the land, how could "Ishmael" have any claim? Eze 47:13 Thus saith the Lord GOD; This shall be the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions. 14And ye shall inherit it, one as well as another: concerning the which I lifted up mine hand to give it unto your fathers: and this land shall fall unto you for inheritance.
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Post by kjs on Dec 20, 2018 13:09:24 GMT -6
mike , because Jesus was to come through the line of Isaac, not Ishmael. It was not that Ishmael would not have a chance at the same Promise. This was a law thing (ways and means) that God established, so that man would see that the future Messiah came according to that family line. Sonship mandate... I believe I understand your point here but I am referring to the actual dirt not the lineage of Messiah. Ishmael is not considered in the below, therefore when referring to the land, how could "Ishmael" have any claim? Eze 47:13 Thus saith the Lord GOD; This shall be the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions. 14And ye shall inherit it, one as well as another: concerning the which I lifted up mine hand to give it unto your fathers: and this land shall fall unto you for inheritance. Sorry, Mike I was not clear in my writings (common issue in written vs spoken) Yes, Ishmael (and his descendants) are children of Abraham. No, Ishmael (and his descendants) are not the chosen line -- therefore have NO rights to the Land promised to Jacob/Israel) .......
Remember, Ishmael was promised many children as well (Genesis 17) that Ishmael has been blessed and that He "will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation."
BUT nothing about the coming Messiah nor land grant was given to Ishmael.
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