james
New Member
Posts: 22 
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Post by james on Sept 26, 2017 18:12:42 GMT -6
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Post by galen on Sept 28, 2017 18:30:43 GMT -6
Matt 24:14 And this gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations and then the end will come
I do not believe this is actually completed before the rapture, he was talking about the end as in his final coming. There are many unreached tribes, I would guess making up tens of millions of people. I think there might be a thousand or so languages with no portion of the gospel. I believe that it is the 144000 Jews who are sealed for service in Revelation who ultimately complete this mission. But not stating any of this as absolute fact.
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Post by MissusMack08 on Sept 29, 2017 19:23:45 GMT -6
I agree galen , I think the angel flying through heaven preaching the everlasting gospel in Revelation will fulfill that prophecy of reaching every tongue and tribe. james , the idea of the "fullness of the gentiles" being linked to when the rapture occurs, I believe is intricately tied to a specific part of the Imminence doctrine—that Jesus could come to rapture us ANY day and could've come to rapture us ANY day in the last 2000 years since His ascension—and what hinders the rapture is like a specific "quota" of saved gentiles. This is the verse used: Romans 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. The verse is used to fuel (and fund) missionary evangelism efforts in hopes of hurrying the rapture along. That's not to say that missionary efforts are not valid or good. Christ definitely told us to go into all the world preaching the gospel. However, this idea fuels a works-based belief in regard to the rapture—WE are hindering the rapture because WE aren't DOING ENOUGH to spread the gospel to every tribe and nation. I'm sure lots of people have been guilted into giving money to missionary causes using this teaching instead of leaning on the Holy Spirit to guide them. And perhaps missionaries have gone into places where they didn't need to go because God hadn't prepared the hearts of the people yet. We know that the Imminence doctrine cannot be true as far as saying that Jesus "could've" come back any day since He ascended, since there were lots of prophecies yet unfulfilled that needed fulfilling before the rapture, like Israel coming back into her land. (That's not to say that the expectation him of Him ever since was not valid, just we know in hindsight, it couldn't have happened) However, we know that God is sovereign and knows everything already. He proclaims the end from the beginning, so He already knows everyone who will be saved when the rapture occurs. So, there is a specific number of people who will be saved because God knows it already but to think that will be completed based on our efforts rather than God's timing of events is incorrect, imho. The rapture will occur at the exact moment in history when it needs to occur and will line up with all the signs and everything that will follow. It cannot be sped up or slowed down based on our efforts. So, my $0.02 is that we don't need to worry about whether or not every tribe and tongue are reached PRIOR to the rapture. If it happens, great! I'm not sure how we could possibly know though. It will happen before the absolute end, though, because that is what Matt 24:14 says. |
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Post by Rick on Oct 1, 2017 23:27:28 GMT -6
I agree galen , I think the angel flying through heaven preaching the everlasting gospel in Revelation will fulfill that prophecy of reaching every tongue and tribe. james , the idea of the "fullness of the gentiles" being linked to when the rapture occurs, I believe is intricately tied to a specific part of the Imminence doctrine—that Jesus could come to rapture us ANY day and could've come to rapture us ANY day in the last 2000 years since His ascension—and what hinders the rapture is like a specific "quota" of saved gentiles. This is the verse used: Romans 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. The verse is used to fuel (and fund) missionary evangelism efforts in hopes of hurrying the rapture along. That's not to say that missionary efforts are not valid or good. Christ definitely told us to go into all the world preaching the gospel. However, this idea fuels a works-based belief in regard to the rapture—WE are hindering the rapture because WE aren't DOING ENOUGH to spread the gospel to every tribe and nation. I'm sure lots of people have been guilted into giving money to missionary causes using this teaching instead of leaning on the Holy Spirit to guide them. And perhaps missionaries have gone into places where they didn't need to go because God hadn't prepared the hearts of the people yet. We know that the Imminence doctrine cannot be true as far as saying that Jesus "could've" come back any day since He ascended, since there were lots of prophecies yet unfulfilled that needed fulfilling before the rapture, like Israel coming back into her land. (That's not to say that the expectation him of Him ever since was not valid, just we know in hindsight, it couldn't have happened) However, we know that God is sovereign and knows everything already. He proclaims the end from the beginning, so He already knows everyone who will be saved when the rapture occurs. So, there is a specific number of people who will be saved because God knows it already but to think that will be completed based on our efforts rather than God's timing of events is incorrect, imho. The rapture will occur at the exact moment in history when it needs to occur and will line up with all the signs and everything that will follow. It cannot be sped up or slowed down based on our efforts. So, my $0.02 is that we don't need to worry about whether or not every tribe and tongue are reached PRIOR to the rapture. If it happens, great! I'm not sure how we could possibly know though. It will happen before the absolute end, though, because that is what Matt 24:14 says. You are so spot on MissusMack08. So much of this misconception of scripture today is attached to students entering into "Cemetery School" (I know it's actually seminary) and coming out "dead" and teaching "Tradition" and not really knowing anything about God's word. 1Pet 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: |
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Post by MissusMack08 on Oct 2, 2017 0:15:32 GMT -6
I agree galen , I think the angel flying through heaven preaching the everlasting gospel in Revelation will fulfill that prophecy of reaching every tongue and tribe. james , the idea of the "fullness of the gentiles" being linked to when the rapture occurs, I believe is intricately tied to a specific part of the Imminence doctrine—that Jesus could come to rapture us ANY day and could've come to rapture us ANY day in the last 2000 years since His ascension—and what hinders the rapture is like a specific "quota" of saved gentiles. This is the verse used: Romans 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. The verse is used to fuel (and fund) missionary evangelism efforts in hopes of hurrying the rapture along. That's not to say that missionary efforts are not valid or good. Christ definitely told us to go into all the world preaching the gospel. However, this idea fuels a works-based belief in regard to the rapture—WE are hindering the rapture because WE aren't DOING ENOUGH to spread the gospel to every tribe and nation. I'm sure lots of people have been guilted into giving money to missionary causes using this teaching instead of leaning on the Holy Spirit to guide them. And perhaps missionaries have gone into places where they didn't need to go because God hadn't prepared the hearts of the people yet. We know that the Imminence doctrine cannot be true as far as saying that Jesus "could've" come back any day since He ascended, since there were lots of prophecies yet unfulfilled that needed fulfilling before the rapture, like Israel coming back into her land. (That's not to say that the expectation him of Him ever since was not valid, just we know in hindsight, it couldn't have happened) However, we know that God is sovereign and knows everything already. He proclaims the end from the beginning, so He already knows everyone who will be saved when the rapture occurs. So, there is a specific number of people who will be saved because God knows it already but to think that will be completed based on our efforts rather than God's timing of events is incorrect, imho. The rapture will occur at the exact moment in history when it needs to occur and will line up with all the signs and everything that will follow. It cannot be sped up or slowed down based on our efforts. So, my $0.02 is that we don't need to worry about whether or not every tribe and tongue are reached PRIOR to the rapture. If it happens, great! I'm not sure how we could possibly know though. It will happen before the absolute end, though, because that is what Matt 24:14 says. You are so spot on MissusMack08 . So much of this misconception of scripture today is attached to students entering into "Cemetery School" (I know it's actually seminary) and coming out "dead" and teaching "Tradition" and not really knowing anything about God's word. 1Pet 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: I don't know about all the seminary schools but within my circle (southern baptist), I think the pastors are genuine. However, I feel they over-emphasize being like Paul, "only knowing Christ and Him crucified." I feel like they get most of their education on the New Testament and evangelizing and pastor if, but they don't necessarily "get" the Hebrew and Jewish culture and language that are really so vital for us to understand the big picture. While we do need evangelists and pastors, we also need scholars and thinkers. We need people who can help put the pieces together to give us a more full and rich understanding of the whole witness of God, not just the gospels and the rest of the New Testament (not that the New Testament isn't rich! But it's not the whole Testament!) Otherwise, people get saved (which is good) but then tend to stagnate. |
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