jan84
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Post by jan84 on Aug 30, 2017 7:27:34 GMT -6
I am really struggeling with the hole concept of dividing. There is so much confusion out there. Last week i was like reading 10 different opinions all say based upon reading the bible and letting it say what it says. Here in the Netherlands there are lot of denominations Many who say that the gifts of the spirit are for today but ive red that many of the gifts are not to today. Or some say some gifts are for today.
Also the idea of dispensational thinking is like herresy here in the Netherlands. Shame....
I am confused........
Our church does not teach this and rejects it. They dont beleave in the different dispensations.
Anyone Experiance the Same things?
I love watching lonnie martin and his normal loving teachings.
Jan
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 7:50:13 GMT -6
Hi Jan, welcome to our group. I understand your struggle. To encourage you, I think that any genuine seeker will find that the body of Christ is greatly divided on a great many things. You are not alone in your findings. I think this is part of the reason that Jesus wants us to have a direct relationship with Him and not to need to go through other people (pastors, priests, popes) to get to Him. I tell my family that God is not that interested in our adherence to certain belief systems. Rather he is interested in our relationship with him.
What does that mean? Do we walk with him on a moment by moment bases? Do we talk to him about all things, not just ask him for things? Do we seek him in everyone we come across? Do we long for his coming? Do we wish him to be within us and speak to us? Stuff like that.
This does not mean that the belief systems are not important. Some can hurt our relationship with Christ and others can help. But whenever we become confused about "what is right." Fall back onto the established rock - Jesus. He is right! I Cry out to him to show me truth and to help me discern. Love all teachers - test their message. Walk in the truth of who Jesus was / is. Let the doctrine sort itself out over time.
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jan84
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Post by jan84 on Aug 30, 2017 8:49:07 GMT -6
Hi Jan, welcome to our group. I understand your struggle. To encourage you, I think that any genuine seeker will find that the body of Christ is greatly divided on a great many things. You are not alone in your findings. I think this is part of the reason that Jesus wants us to have a direct relationship with Him and not to need to go through other people (pastors, priests, popes) to get to Him. I tell my family that God is not that interested in our adherence to certain belief systems. Rather he is interested in our relationship with him. What does that mean? Do we walk with him on a moment by moment bases? Do we talk to him about all things, not just ask him for things? Do we seek him in everyone we come across? Do we long for his coming? Do we wish him to be within us and speak to us? Stuff like that. This does not mean that the belief systems are not important. Some can hurt our relationship with Christ and others can help. But whenever we become confused about "what is right." Fall back onto the established rock - Jesus. He is right! I Cry out to him to show me truth and to help me discern. Love all teachers - test their message. Walk in the truth of who Jesus was / is. Let the doctrine sort itself out over time. Your right. Walking and talking with the Lord is more important. Ive got the feeling Jesus want me to be a watchmen and telling others that some of there beleefs or doctrine are wrong is hard. Ill do it with love but its like hitting a brick wall..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 9:28:45 GMT -6
At one point in my life I tried to undo all the layers of teaching I had endured over the years to boil down to the core of my belief system - even to the point of believing in God at all. My core is this:
He Is, and He Is who He says He Is
It is pretty easy to get to the "He Is" part. My internal spirit, the creation, the accomplishments of man, and the existence of evil prove to me that "He Is" Even without the scripture, I think we can easily deduce what kind of God he is by looking at creation - he is kind and caring, but actions have consequences, he loves beauty, he allows loss, he is extremely powerful, but gentle to the core. He speaks the creation into existence, but he also speaks to my spirit. Much of this can answer who he is.
We can get a lot of answers from nature itself. But at some level we do need to turn to scripture. Which scripture? The only one that seems to properly address the reality that I experience and that I witness is the bible.
The overwhelming message I receive from the bible is this:
God does it all.
That may seem like a simple statement but there is so much built into it. He inspired it all. He planned it all. He created it all. He directed it all. He gave it all. He saved it all. He claims it all. He is All in All.
To us, some of this is past, some present, some future - but to God He has already done it all.
It is hard not to fall in love with this God. We love him, because he first loved us. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
So now, I rest in the God who did it all. There is nothing I can add to His accomplishment. I can share this truth with others so that they also can know him and rest. I can serve him in whatever way he asks - not to add to what he has done - but to say thank you and to show my love for him and for others. Not to achieve a better salvation - but to be more like him. And even these acts that I do in obedience to his Word - they are also him working within me. Even that is Christ in me.
- - -
From here there are many doctrines and theologies and some are fun and add value to my relationship with the Father. Some detract from that relationship. It is good to study and be able to explain our beliefs. It is wise to meditate and know God even more through his word. In so doing we gain many insights into how to live and how to understand the times.
As far as dispensationalism. There are variants even in this teaching. I for one, do not believe that God treats any of us differently based on time, race, or nationality. I do think he works with individuals at times - both for honor and for dishonor. I also think he works with nations at times to advance his message and to judge other nations. And I believe he has a people group upon which he places the mantle of bringing in his kingdom. So far, each of these people groups has failed the mission. Which, of course, is part of his plan and goes back to the biblical core: God does it all. In the end, we realize, only He can bring in the kingdom.
At times, His spirit has been more or less available, but his expectation of every person is the same - Believe in God as the author and finisher of our faith. And in His Son who is our salvation. The work is His. The rest is ours. (see the pun?)
Note: Moses(law): Exo 15:2 The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him. The Psalmist: Psa 118:14 The LORD is my strength and song, and is become my salvation. and the Prophets: Isa 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
My Lord has become my salvation. The Hebrew word for salvation in these passages is the hebrew name of Jesus - Jeshuah.
God shows us that the law and the prophets and the psalms all testify that Jesus is God and is our salvation.
Anyway, this is a short version of how starting over in our belief system can lead us to the core truths that, I believe, should be our first love: Jesus and His complete work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 9:35:16 GMT -6
I understand what you are saying about being a watchman - and I apologize for my "preaching to the choir." I do this partly because I do not know who else will read our conversation and they may or may not have gotten to this core of relationship. As to the watchman element - i feel your pain and I think many of us are in the same boat. In my own life I say things like this: We know certain things will take place. We don't all agree on the order or timeframe or length of time. But certain events will happen. Also, the sign that will be in the sky on Sept 23 is not a prediction or a guess or the result of manmade calculations. It is a real astronomical event that happens to align with something John said 1900 years ago. Also, even though I do not personally believe the child of Rev 12 is Jesus - even it if it was - what would God be trying to tell us by arranging the sign to show up now? This at least gets them to think and not focus on the disagreements that are bound to happen. My whole goal is to get them seeking His face. Not to agree with the timing and theology of all the events coming upon the earth. I then need to trust God to lead them into all truth. Anyway, don't know if I'm helping here, but didn't want your questions ignored either.
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jan84
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Post by jan84 on Aug 30, 2017 9:44:12 GMT -6
Thanks. It helps 😀 Just by knowing that i AM not alone in this.
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Post by mike on Aug 30, 2017 9:55:40 GMT -6
S.K. You nailed it pretty well We all may have some doctrinal differences based on a lot of teachings and influences. Like you (SK) I had to reevaluate my life as it relates to HIM and break it down to the fundamental base the blood of Christ is our propitiation for sins. PERIOD! Unfortunately my life/walk took a very long detour in that I slipped away. Although I have much regret over that, God used it to bring me back to the simple foundation of death, burial, resurrection. All of the sects and slants on teachings are (in my opinion) not the issue today. People are searching for answers. People need truth! This world is full of lies, "fake news" and distractions. How many people do you see with their faces buried in the phones wandering around lost? TOO MANY! As you so eloquently worded above, God reveals Himself in many ways. One being nature. He even tells us so in Romans ( 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse..) The Lord has brought me here to find answers and contribute in any way I can to help others with answers too. I believe it will all be revealed to us soon enough. Unfortunately the deception will grow even stronger as well. As for dispensations...I look at it this way. I fully believe God can heal, raise the dead and so on. Yet I have not witnessed anyone be raised from the dead. I have never seen a shadow pass behind someone and those around him be healed of sickness or disease. I have never seen anyone walk on water. Can it happen? Our God can do anything. Will it happen, maybe but that's not the focus. My goal is to keep people focused on HIM first and foremost.
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jan84
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Post by jan84 on Aug 30, 2017 11:27:58 GMT -6
S.K. You nailed it pretty well We all may have some doctrinal differences based on a lot of teachings and influences. Like you (SK) I had to reevaluate my life as it relates to HIM and break it down to the fundamental base the blood of Christ is our propitiation for sins. PERIOD! Unfortunately my life/walk took a very long detour in that I slipped away. Although I have much regret over that, God used it to bring me back to the simple foundation of death, burial, resurrection. All of the sects and slants on teachings are (in my opinion) not the issue today. People are searching for answers. People need truth! This world is full of lies, "fake news" and distractions. How many people do you see with their faces buried in the phones wandering around lost? TOO MANY! As you so eloquently worded above, God reveals Himself in many ways. One being nature. He even tells us so in Romans ( 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse..) The Lord has brought me here to find answers and contribute in any way I can to help others with answers too. I believe it will all be revealed to us soon enough. Unfortunately the deception will grow even stronger as well. As for dispensations...I look at it this way. I fully believe God can heal, raise the dead and so on. Yet I have not witnessed anyone be raised from the dead. I have never seen a shadow pass behind someone and those around him be healed of sickness or disease. I have never seen anyone walk on water. Can it happen? Our God can do anything. Will it happen, maybe but that's not the focus. My goal is to keep people focused on HIM first and foremost. Indeed if God want he will he is great. But some people here claim to be healers and stuff. And a lot of people run after them. Its sad but it is written that they will thus the more prove we need to stay close to God
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Post by mike on Aug 30, 2017 11:33:48 GMT -6
Sadly Jan84 they will be disappointed by those they chase after. We have much of that here in America as well. Many of us call it "tickling ears". Whatever makes someone "feel" good is what they chase after. They attribute the miraculous to God but many of them are charlatans. Its a shame. When you say " But some people here claim to be healers and stuff" you mean the Netherlands right (not Unsealed)? Hang around you sound like you need some encouragement and this is a good place for it.
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jan84
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Post by jan84 on Aug 30, 2017 12:08:30 GMT -6
Sadly Jan84 they will be disappointed by those they chase after. We have much of that here in America as well. Many of us call it "tickling ears". Whatever makes someone "feel" good is what they chase after. They attribute the miraculous to God but many of them are charlatans. Its a shame. When you say " But some people here claim to be healers and stuff" you mean the Netherlands right (not Unsealed)? Hang around you sound like you need some encouragement and this is a good place for it. I ment the Netherlands indeed. Unsealed is awsome
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 31, 2017 0:21:03 GMT -6
You have found your friends here, Jan! I appreciate your struggle, and you are not alone, although it may seem like it sometimes. Once we see Jesus in the clouds, we will no longer have different denominations and different philosophies and doctrines. Everyone who trusted Jesus to save them from their sin will be there--and we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is. We will no longer be able to sin, and all confusion and doubt will be erased. Meanwhile, do what you can to serve Him here! I am so happy that God has allowed you to fellowship with us here at Unsealed, and that you are alert to the times we live in, and the soon return of Jesus!
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