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Post by skyletters on Jul 22, 2017 10:45:13 GMT -6
I was speaking to a friend about the Revelation 12 sign, and they said that since the the Jews in Israel are not the legitimate Jews in the bible, God's prophetic timeline isn't necessarily being fulfilled. That it's Satan's attempt at creating a Jewish state since the "Jews" that run Israel now are from the "synagogue of satan" and free masonry (Netanyahu being a member). I know that the illuminati and free masons exist, but God could use them to fulfill His purposes, right? One example was that the star of David is actually a symbol of sun worship, which I can see, but it is just a symbol of man. I've been trying to research this topic since so much of it doesn't seem legitimate to me, and I was wondering if anyone would be able to help clarify anything or if there was a good resource for this topic.
Thanks!
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Post by whatif on Jul 22, 2017 12:25:51 GMT -6
Welcome to the forum, skyletters! It's a pleasure to meet you!
It is a sad thing to hear people say that the Jews in Israel are not the "real" Jews. Of course they are! I've recently heard a very good video regarding the subject and will be happy to post it. I just have to first remember who the speaker was so I can get the right one. I will hunt it down!
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Post by skyletters on Jul 22, 2017 13:34:55 GMT -6
Thank you very much whatif! That was my first thought as well! There has to be some legitimate Jews in Israel, even if some follow free masonry practices. They are still God's people.
I love that we can ask questions and dig deeper into God's truths – there is so much to learn.
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Post by whatif on Jul 22, 2017 13:36:24 GMT -6
You are so very welcome, skyletters! Here are some good videos addressing the question!
The first video specifically mentions the question from about time mark 14:40 onward. Source: "The Harbingers of Israel: Part 1/Episode 867," Perry Stone Channel, YouTube, 19 May 2017,
Source: "The Harbingers of Israel: Part 2/Episode 868," Perry Stone Channel, YouTube, 26 May 2017,
In the following video, the question is mentioned specifically at about time mark 22:50. Source: "Tommy Ice: The Case for Zionism," Prophecy Watchers Channel, YouTube, 13 April 2017,
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Post by watchmanjim on Jul 22, 2017 23:03:08 GMT -6
Welcome to the Forum, Skyletters!
I'm sorry you had to encounter the unfortunate doctrine of the "illegitimate Jews." There is an entire bloc of Christians out there in the world who believe what you just described. This is usually associated with "Replacement Theology," which in my humble but firm opinion, is a very false doctrine.
Replacement Theology seeks to say that God is done with the Jews, and everything He does from here on out is with the church. It's very sad, in my opinion ignores clear Biblical teaching, especially in Romans, and in Ezekiel, as well as what is taught in the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation.
As a variation, some people believe that certain Jews are legitimate, but that the Ashkenazi Jews are not, and that instead, they are some sort of cursed race brought on by Satan to plague the world. This is also in my opinion, a very warped and sad false doctrine.
Many of these Jew-hating people (and they may say they don't hate Jews, but talk to them a little, and you'll sense it in their tone of voice), they take the following verses as one of their primary texts to defend their position:
Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Now honestly, I am not quite sure what this verse means, although there are several possibilities. But I have studied the Bible so thoroughly, as well as modern history, and genetic studies on various groups of Jews, that I overwhelingly concluded that all the primary groups of Jews today are legitiate--the one POSSIBLE exception being the Beta Israel Ethiopian Jews, but I don't think even they, are what this verse is talking about.
My best guess is that this verse is actually referring to these same Replacement Theology false teachers, who say that national / ethnic Israel was REPLCED FOREVER by the church, which they claim is the NEW and CURRENT and PERMANENT Israel. Thus they say that we, the church, are Israel, thus essentially claiming to be Jews in the spiritual sense, when in fact, God does make a distinction that national, ethnic Israel is still important to Him, and He will indeed restore them going through the Tribulation and on into the Millennium.
Another possibility is multiple groups of people, including some African American denominations, and some British Israelism adherents, and certain people among various American Indian tribes, all of whom claim that their people are the Lost Tribes of Northern Israel. However, if these were meant, I don't think Jesus in Revelation would have used the term "Jews" but rather Israelites, as these people usually do not claim descent from the tribe of Judah, which are the legitimate Jews (not all Israelites are Jews, only Judah tribes' people are truly Jews).
I still don't know exactly what Revelation 3:9 is referring to, but it is a nagging question with me. And yet, with all the studying I've done, I can in no wise reconcile Replacement Theology with all the things God says in the Bible, especially in Ezekiel, Genesis, and Isaiah, but really in almost every book.
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Post by whatif on Jul 23, 2017 0:39:17 GMT -6
Amen to that, watchmanjim!
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Post by Gary on Jul 23, 2017 7:40:53 GMT -6
Really, really well said, Jim. I'll have to remember this thread to come back to for reference in the future.
I echo Jim's sentiments to a 'T'. This modern "Israeli Jews are not ethnic Jews" theory is a lie from the pit of hell. Anti-semitism in its worst form. Skyletters, I would steer clear of "Christians" teaching that theory and you'll often find that theory goes hand-in-hand with some other pretty bad theology.
Welcome to the forum, by the way.
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Post by skyletters on Jul 25, 2017 12:38:22 GMT -6
Thank you watchmanjim for taking the time to reply! You made some really good points. The idea of Jews not being legitimate now just didn't sit right with me, and I definitely need to look more into it.
Thanks everyone for welcoming me!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 14:29:41 GMT -6
Hello skyletters! Welcome! Sorry for not responding earlier; the others beat me to it!
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Post by watchmanjim on Jul 26, 2017 0:06:23 GMT -6
Yes, as you study this topic on other sites and sources, remember one good rule of thumb for research:
"Consider the source."
Does the source have a biased agenda? A vested interest? If so, what is it? What is the attitude of the writer? And also, how good and how thorough is their documentation?
Anybody can throw together a blog, a study, or a paper, and it can be full of lies, omissions, and false assumptions. Look at how they validate their points, and compare it to the Bible.
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