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Post by Gary on Jun 27, 2017 12:24:57 GMT -6
Two good videos from Robert Breaker were recently shared with me. I'm not KJV Only like he is, but his teachings are excellent otherwise. These really clear up the faith/works debate.
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Post by watchmanjim on Jun 27, 2017 22:13:37 GMT -6
I was studying Romans 3 tonight and had these verses come back to light:
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
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Post by bernie on Oct 23, 2018 11:13:57 GMT -6
I love Breaker's teaching style, including his use of the whiteboard. I was a KJV only Independent Baptist like him for about 12 years. Had a couple of great Bible teaching pastors there as well. I jokingly call them the Culotte Cult now because they encouraged women to wear them instead of pants. They said women should not wear pants because they're for men only.
One question I have on his teaching is; I believe he said in one of his videos that the way of salvation changes after the Rapture. I don't understand how it can be different if Revelation 14:6 says that during the tribulation an angel is flying through the air proclaiming the everlasting gospel.
Can anyone point out a location to find info on this? Thanks!
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Post by mike on Oct 23, 2018 11:21:33 GMT -6
Bernie, did he elaborate further? I believe that since at least a third of mankind will be killed during certainly parts of the tribulation, then more when other seals, bowls and vials are opened it is likely that many would accept the mark to gain some form of protection. The way would be faith just like you and me. I don't believe refusing Christ and refusing the mark would mean someone is saved either. Although with that there is some room for interpretation as well as the mark can be debated as spiritual rather than an actual mark
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Post by bernie on Oct 23, 2018 18:14:18 GMT -6
I'm not sure Mike, and I don't remember which video either. I'll try to locate it.
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Post by bernie on Oct 23, 2018 18:21:31 GMT -6
I found it quicker than I thought:
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Post by boraddict on Oct 23, 2018 20:07:32 GMT -6
Bernie, did he elaborate further? I believe that since at least a third of mankind will be killed during certainly parts of the tribulation, then more when other seals, bowls and vials are opened it is likely that many would accept the mark to gain some form of protection. The way would be faith just like you and me. I don't believe refusing Christ and refusing the mark would mean someone is saved either. Although with that there is some room for interpretation as well as the mark can be debated as spiritual rather than an actual mark Mike, I think you have identified the qualifier that separates the wheat from the tares. "Many would accept the mark to gain some form of protection." "The way would be faith just like you and me." Thus, the wheat have faith just like you and me, and the tares accept the mark of the beast to gain protection. That is, the wheat turn to Christ, whereas the tares turn to the beast. Afterwards, the wheat is harvested (Rev. 14:16), and the tares are burned. Fortunately for us, the barley had long since been enraptured (Rev. 14:1) when the wheat is separated from the tares (Rev. 14:16). I have searched for the qualifier for the barley but can not find it. But you have identified the qualifier for the wheat. However, I suspect the barley qualifier pertains to those who look for the Lord. Those who do not look for the Lord would be either wheat or tares. Thus, the wheat are those believers whom at this time do not diligently seek the Lord's return. They are the five virgins of Matt. 25 that have the door shut on them. The other five made the cut for the barley harvest.
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Post by Natalie on Oct 24, 2018 7:07:04 GMT -6
The rapture is for any believer, whether they are watching (awake) or not watching (asleep) 1 Thes 5:1-11 They are sealed by the Holy Spirit and part of the Body of Christ. It also just doesn't make sense that God would divide the Body with the rapture.
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Post by Natalie on Oct 24, 2018 7:15:48 GMT -6
Bernie- I didn't watch the video, but I know that some say that when the Restrainer, being the Holy Spirit, is removed that means that things go back to how it was in the OT. That the Holy Spirit doesn't seal people and indwell them anymore. Except maybe the 144,000? Others believe that the Restrainer is just removed from restraining that which holds back the Anti-Christ. Therefore, He is still on earth and still seals believers. (I lean towards this belief) ETA: Those in the first group use Matthew 25 with the 10 virgins and the servants/talents that the believers will have to work and keep their faith. They will be cast out if they don't. Truthfully, I need to do a study on Matt 25.
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Post by boraddict on Oct 24, 2018 7:32:50 GMT -6
Hi Natalie. The parable of the ten virgins shows that the church is divided by the Lord himself. For me the parable is saying that ten percent of the population of the earth believe in Lord Jesus. That number would be 7 billion / 10 = 700 million. Then half of those are ready when the Savior returns; thus, they go in with him and the door is shut (Matt. 25:10). The verse states that they, the five virgins, were ready. The ones that are currently ready are the ones that are seeking for the Lords return. The ones who are not ready are those living their lives being focused on the cares of the world. Perhaps they believe in Christ but do not fellowship. I don't know. But there appears to be a dividing line, and some believers go with Christ and some do not. Thus, there are two raptures because this second group who are on the earth during the reign of the beast and are persecuted (Dan. 7:25, Rev. 13:7), must wait until another harvest; the harvest of the wheat.
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Post by bernie on Oct 24, 2018 16:18:50 GMT -6
In the video he's saying during the Church Age it's by grace through faith. But in Old Testament time and during the Tribulation he's saying it's faith plus works.
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Post by fitz on Oct 24, 2018 18:08:07 GMT -6
Referencing Natalie's comment...Personally, I think it's more accurate to say that the Holy Spirit is "taken out of the way". I.e. No longer restraining evil (which of course is also manifest through the work of the church in this current age). Evil will run rampant, and God will allow it to take it's course largely unabated. Not-withstanding, He maintains ultimate control.
When the church is raptured, what is left? The only reliable pointer to Christ will be God's word, which Jesus says "will never pass away". So, the bible. This Word teaches ONE Gospel. One Way to be justified. One Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Since the cross, there is but one path to salvation and the bible teaches no other. Grace through faith. If tribulation saints are expected to achieve salvation by faith + works, they won't know that by reading a bible. In fact, reading the bible would doom them. No, no no. Can't be. I believe , as Natalie, the Holy Spirit will still indwell the believer in Jesus post-rapture. Still Grace through faith. Besides, no mortal man will be able to withstand the horrors of the tribulation in his own strength and maintain faith in Christ without the Holy Spirit. It would be impossible.
My .02.
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Post by bernie on Oct 24, 2018 20:35:07 GMT -6
I agree fitz, and again the angel in Revelation 14:6 flying through the air is proclaiming the Everlasting Gospel. And the Gospel and works are diametrically opposed. I don't where Breaker got this stuff.
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Post by boraddict on Oct 24, 2018 21:01:13 GMT -6
An interesting observation about Rev. 18. When Christ and his followers no longer intermingle with the people of the earth then there is nothing to restrain evil.
So we have the fall of Babylon in Chapter 17, and the rapture in Verse 18:4 followed by the plagues in Verse 18:8. This would seem to indicate that when Babylon falls the restrainer is still present. But when the rapture takes place at Verse 18:4 the restrainer is taken. This allows the plagues to begin at Verse 18:8 that are also referenced in Verse 6:8. Thus, the chronological order appears to be: the beast destroys Babylon (v. 17:16), the Savior takes his people (v. 18:4), the beast now has control of the earth (vv. 18:8 / 6:8).
Then at the end of Chapter 18 we are told that they are gone as well as the restrainer as follows: 1) Babylon is thrown down (v. 18:21) 2) the followers of Christ are no longer heard in Babylon (v. 18:22), including "the light of the candle" meaning God and the light of Christ and the restrainer, "the voice of the bridegroom" meaning the Savior, as well as "the bride" meaning the church of Christ that are the "great men of the earth" (v. 18:23). Afterwards 3) "for by thy (v. 19:2) sorceries were all nations deceived" (v. 18:23).
Thus, Babylon is destroyed because of her sorceries that caused the murders of prophets and saints (v. 18:24). The one that destroys Babylon is the beast; after-which, is the rapture and the removal of the restrainer followed by the plagues.
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Post by mike on Oct 25, 2018 6:10:39 GMT -6
Having a hard time with brother Breakers explanation of how to be saved in the OT. I see some contradiction. Are we to assume that the profane who sacrificed animals to false gods were also saved? Is this how that all came into being? Just randomly killing animals without understanding the reasons for doing so does not save anyone. Maybe I'm missing what he is trying to say.
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
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