Post by disciple4life on Nov 21, 2021 13:23:31 GMT -6
The bible actually shows us that the Two-witnesses and the Beasts time are not parallel.
Since we know its the Two-witnesses who get Israel to repent (Malachi 4:5-6) then they have to show up before the A.C. becomes the Beast at the 1260 point, so the Jews who repent will understand what they need to do (Flee Judea).
as Rev. 8 says a Mountain cast into the sea (Asteroid event).
Barnes:
And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died - The effect was as if one-third of all the fish in the sea were cut off. Of course this is not to be taken literally.
And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died - The effect was as if one-third of all the fish in the sea were cut off. Of course this is not to be taken literally.
Jamieson-Fausett-Brown:
not literally a mountain: a mountain-like burning mass. There is a plain allusion to Jer 51:25; Am 7:4.
not literally a mountain: a mountain-like burning mass. There is a plain allusion to Jer 51:25; Am 7:4.
rondonmonson said "The bible actually shows us that the Two-witnesses and the Beasts time are not parallel."
venge said, "That's one opinion. Another that many agree on, the Bible actually shows us the 2 witnesses and the beast are parallel.
Very interesting points. Hmmm. The really helpful thing, would be to cite the scripture [For both sides] which seems to support that position. As it is, it's a bit like saying cats are better than dogs.
I agree that the word is mountain, Oros, not an asteroid, but here's another case of Occam's Razor, - when the simplest and best solution is the most obvious one -which is a volcano, - ginormous burning mountain, and as we've seen, there are multiple studies that show the chain reaction that happens when a 1/4 of the Island of La Palma slides off into the sea, and as of last week, there were 4 earthquakes, all greater than 4. on the Richter scale, in one 24 hour period. The earthquakes are growing in frequency and in intensity.
Whether an asteroid crashes into the sea or an active volcano, really makes little to no difference - the results would be similar. Whether a giant asteroid smashes into my house, or a ginormous volcano spewing molten lava falls down the mountain and my house gets engulfed in lava - it's total destruction and a hot mess.
We would expect a giant tsunami, and the result of either high temperature changes and/or the combination of acid and toxins, released along with rapid temperature changes would kill millions of sea creatures.
So for a person to say it's not literal -- then they also have no basis whatsoever to believe that any sea creatures will be killed.
You can't say the mountain is symbolic, but it falls into the literal sea, and then literally kills millions of sea creatures. It's like saying Batman or Palestinians or Narnians will somehow kill 1/3 of all humans.
Basic principles of Bible interpretation 101 is that "If the text seems to make literal sense, seek no other sense, or it will be nonsense" and the best course of action is to interpret scripture literally rather than dismissing things as symbolic or allegory.
Scripture explicitly says that the length of time of the ministry of the 2 witnesses is 1260 days. Rev 11:3 This is very significant. It's 3 1/2 prophetic years, and the phrase used by Daniel, which is describing 1/2 of the tribulation "Times, Time and half a time" [Daniel 7:25 and Daniel 12:7] the words here in the Hebrew are literally "Moedim" plural for Times, and Moed, singular for time, and these are the very words for the Feasts of the Lord, - "appointed times".
So we have not only the ministry of the 2 witnesses being 3 1/2 years, but it matches the exact number of the day count, which is listed in Revelation. Could these exact periods of 1260 days be different, ? ? Maybe, but it's making huge assumptions, not supported by the text, nor by anything, or any cultural or historical case, to even support it.
Revelation 11:3 Literal Standard Version
"and I will give to My two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand, two hundred, sixty days, clothed with sackcloth”;
It's completely clear that this is literal. There are literally 2 witnesses. The number is not symbolic of "Multitudes".
This is why it's so so important to follow sound Hermeneutics.
** Anyone who says "It's not literal" has the right to his or her opinion that cats are better than dogs, but they have no basis to then say that the number of days is actually 1260. The text says Elijah, and we know that Elijah literally stopped the rain, in the Old Testament, and so to say they don't literally stop the rain, is a total violation of basic hermeneutics and it's akin to insisting that there are really 4 witnesses, which symbolically represent the 4 seasons, or that the text says 2, but it really means 7, and refers to the 7 stars of Pleides constellation.
Commentaries are nothing more than someones opinion, and many of the same ones who say it was not meant to be taken literally and others, said the same thing about Israel before it literally became a nation in one day, literally fulfilling prophecy.
Regarding the 2 witnesses' , and who they minister to, Israel, or the unsaved? ? It's both, It's clear that the 144,000 Jewish witnesses are also preaching, and it is they who are able to explain to their Jewish brothers, Israel -- NOT the church, - that the times of the end, [that Daniel explicitly shows are connected with the Feasts], - they are able to explain how the Feasts all Point to and are fulfilled in Christ and by Christ, and it is precisely when the resurrection happens at "The Last Trumpet" which Paul explicitly said will happen, [Feast of Trumpets] and then we have Jews everywhere that believe the "Great resurrection" happens at Feast of Trumpets, and when all the dead in Christ through history are all resurrected in a millisecond and we are raptured in a nano-second, caught up quickly into the clouds, and 80,-100 million people all disappear over the earth, on Rosh Hoshanah, Feast of Trumpets, Jews everywhere will notice, though millions of religious people who went to church for years are totally oblivious to this.
So of course both Israel and Gentile unsaved people both will be the hearers of these witnesses. And of course people from both Gentiles and Jews will be saved. These are the Tribulation saints, who are martyred for not taking the mark of the Beast in the Tribulation. None of the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse have happened yet.
Just look at the ethnic diversity of Israel's population, tens of thousands of Arabs and Muslims and millions of non-believing Jews. We see the same type in the First fulfillment of the First Feast, - Passover, when anyone, Jew of Egyptian who put the blood on the doorposts would be saved.
We also see that scripture says explicitly that strangers and foreigners were invited to take part in Passover, **but they had to be circumcised, - thus also proving that Israel is NOT the church.
Then we see Paul, confirming multiple passages in Daniel, when he said explicitly that the resurrection/ harpazo happens at the Last Trumpet, ! Cor 15:51-52 which every hearer instantly understood as the 100th blast of the Shofar at Feast of Trumpets - the day of the resurrection and the wedding of the Messiah.
Maranatha,