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Post by kjs on Jul 3, 2019 8:45:31 GMT -6
kjs , I often think back to before Moses, what was written and recorded? Not much i'm guessing. How did those in antiquity know God and how they should be/act in relation to Him back then. How did they know what God wanted, how we should treat one another, etc. (I have ideas on this but these are rhetorical) Unfortunately we find that not many men were deemed righteous and basically everyone on the planet became wicked. Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.We don't necessarily require the text at all to be in right standing with God do we? Would it have helped or made difference to those pre-flood? Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.This basically covers it for me. We love the Word. It helps us grow and learn deep things of God, but the core issue is and always has been the heart is wicked This is just my opinion ....
But remember the life spans the "earlier generations" had .........
Meaning that people could speak with Grandpa Adam (or Great, Great ....) for many, many years -- and have the "STORY" told directly to the hearer.....
Do not know when the "WRITTEN" language developed -- that also was a factor of when the stories had to be recorded by tablet/animal skin ...
{as a huge aside note -- I hope we can somehow learn/see how it was in the "Early Days" -- when we get to eternity}
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Post by mike on Jul 3, 2019 9:15:46 GMT -6
KJ - I fully believe (although I could say its my opinion) that Adam taught of the Lord. He was the patriarch. He walked in the garden with the Lord Himself, before the fall. God instructed Adam personally. I think that I would certainly repeat these events to my children and their children. Well who were the children that were still alive before Adam died? We get all the way to Lamech before Adam dies. Noah wasnt born yet, but Methusaleh and Lamech would have passed this information along as they undoubtedly heard stories directly from Adam.
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david
New Member
Posts: 33
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Post by david on Jul 3, 2019 9:30:02 GMT -6
I read recently that it was fortunate that no originals remain.
Someone with access to an original could make changes to it and then point out that all the copies were wrong. On the other hand, with the original gone, one would have to try to track down lots of copies to make one's edits.
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Post by boraddict on Jul 3, 2019 9:53:22 GMT -6
Yes, the Bible is the primary method that God uses to speak to us. Yet, once taught it is the "heart" that loves God's message or not; and from that point on the Bible is mostly a research tool.
I know a wicked man who asked me once about Ecclesiastes. I'm like really! You do not know the NT and want to go to some of the most complex work of the OT. But that is how some people are, that do not have the love of Christ to guide them in the Bible. For me I never look at Ecclesiastes and why would I. I have everything I need in the NT and a few books of the OT. In fact, I rarely go beyond the gospels and Revelation of the NT and Isaiah and Daniel of the OT and this proves to me that God has provided such a large volume of work in the Bible that everyone can find God's message somewhere therein. Some may like Ecclesiastes and that work may speak to their heart to draw them close to God; even the wicked.
So I am okay with the mistakes in scripture because it is not the written text but the message that is important. After all, we all have our mistakes. But those who wrote those words are the heroes of the story including those who transcribed the words generation after generation. What a great blessing they have been to us.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jul 3, 2019 20:03:40 GMT -6
there are mistakes because of man. even well-intentioned men. There is no favoritism. It should be this way otherwise a certain group of men would be followed (oh, yeah, that's true, what am I thinking?! we have the kjv)..groups of men would be allowed to be empowered by their "knowledge." God has prevented this, Thank GOD! God will always demonstrate the error of "our" ways. Even those who "intend" to do the right thing are, merely...just fleshly men. The printed Word has manly flaws (not a typo, I meant manly, not many), but still we have the Spirit to guide us thru these flaws. I think this is what boraddict , Natalie , mike are saying in my short list reference. All here are saying things of truth so no one is excluded here, no singling out anybody as to saying something wrong. Yet, underlying to this topic is the defense of mankind in the entire argument. I sometimes think of myself as someone alive in 49 and half AD, making food for my man as he returns from tending a flock of sheep and goats. And on some random day I went to town to get some linens, and water from a better well, and there was this guy, his name was James, and I found out he was a brother of Jesus, of whom I had heard about, thru some other guy who came thru the town named Peter. This was all coming to together for me because a family friend heard about a guy named Paul, who was angry about these Christ-follower Good News people, YET, now this Paul dude had had an "enlightenment". This was not in a paper to be purchased at a kioask. This was heresay, and heresay was truth-say, lest one have said tongue cut off for libel. So the Paul story was amazing to those who knew who he was, even the brother of this Jesus. So me, being the wife of a sheepherder, was intrigued by the Message. Being that a sheep farmer was not near the value of say, a tax-collector (aka cattle people) (a joke here, if anyone has any clue of range wars), nor someone who was of a tribe or someone that "was there!" when they crucified Him, even that neighbor of Mary, the mom. wow. lot's of news to deliver to the rest of us not at the crucifixion and those not wanting to be bothered by the roman police state. As this wife of a sheepherder I was collecting the things we needed in town and heard the orators saying what was going on, and I am thinking: what's all the fuss, what's the fuss, tell me what's a-happening, whats' the fuss? The world around the "story" was all a-twitter in the area east of the MedSea! Can you imagine now if this event had happened? Would we trust the papers? the media? is it fake news? NO!! we trust the WITNESSES!! EYE witnesses. so from that point on, when things got written down, and oral accounts were becoming obsolete, the Word became print and was entrusted to an elite, really. I mean, I am a lowly sheepherder's wife, and can not read. I am illiterate, so have to rely on those who can read or who control the accounts. Someone has to tell me what the written thing says, not just tell me "I was there and this is what really happened. " No, we have 3rd 4th generation accounts from the main account written in a language not all speak. Of course it will have error. And God never intended for the Bible to be the authority per se, did He? Does He not say, “When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; 12for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say" ? Before the written word there was a testimony, a witnessing. It needed no translation. It came in the form of at least 2 or 3 witnesses and many were made humble by the truth of the account. When it is truth it is a 2 edge sword. When it is man's err, I consider it a dull knife. When a properly honed two-edged sword speaks true Truth, a sense of hope for each and every occupation is made enlightened, from the drunkard to the famous, in that day, and even today. What translation did I learn this? The HSV....Holy Spirit Version!
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Post by mike on Jul 12, 2019 12:18:50 GMT -6
cwood85 , I am guessing you would agree that learning from a woman on this forum is totally different than sitting under a woman pastor. I hope bobthewebguy understands that because otherwise that comment sounds a bit...I don't know what to call it...rude? disrespectful? demeaning? We are brothers and sisters here learning from one another. No one is in a teaching authority position. I was married by my great aunt who was a pastor for almost 30 years. Probably makes my marriage null and void because it was done by a female... My aunt and her husband were the pastors. They were what you would call, now it’s a funny word for those who think men should entirely dominate over a woman and woman are subordinate to men. They were EQUALS with the pastoring of their church. They were equals in their marriage, which was one of the nicest and sweetest ones I have ever observed. They loved one another very much and it was apparent to all who knew them. But I am sure their marriage would have been even better if her husband always treated her as his lesser rather than his equal, best friend and spouse. Bob is probably right about that. And nothing shows a higher higher level of intelligence like being narrow minded, a know it all and too lazy to do your homework! That’s what gets people high test scores, no studying or research. I honestly think when I am in the presence of a man for too long I can literally feel my IQ dropping out of the back of my head due to their superior teaching and learning skills. Ok, I am done now lol as I could just have way too much fun with Bob! Goodbye Bob! Cwood - I believe that women in the bible are critically important to the entire story of Christ. Look at how integral Rahab was, or Ruth, Elizabeth and of course Mary! To whom did Christ appear to first after His resurrection? There are many other godly women mentioned throughout the epistles as well demonstrating their service to the body of Christ. I would ask you to consider the scripture in context of how it was written and see if your understanding remains the same or not. This is not a matter of salvation so its quite ok to have varying thoughts on this topic. Of course I see your sarcasm in the above but if for not understanding that about you, I would think you were serious and applied that to every man - but I am near 100% certain that you do not truly believe that about all men. I would like to learn more about this topic (and other things that seem obscure in the Word). Maybe we start a new thread and dialogue about it for you, me and anyone else willing to participate? I know there is undoubtedly plenty of literature out on-line about this, but I like learning with my family here 1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. 5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her headWho is the head of the woman? Why did the Lord ordain the man to cover the woman?8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. 9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.Who did the serpent target in the garden, the covering who has authority or the lesser vessel? And why?1 Pet 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.Is this where we place blame for sin on Adam? He should have led his help-mate, instead he was also deceived. 1 Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
I'll stop here as I am interested to hear more thoughts. Oh and theres one of those really obscure verses I dont understand (1 Tim 2:15)
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Post by cwood85 on Jul 13, 2019 21:34:42 GMT -6
mike “Of course I see your sarcasm in the above but if for not understanding that about you, I would think you were serious and applied that to every man - but I am near 100% certain that you do not truly believe that about all men.”
I have about a semi trucks load of sarcasm in me on a daily basis haha. Sometimes I forget not everyone likes sarcasm or they take it seriously or as the person being mean. Usually the sarcasm flies when I am just bewildered or shocked and in some of these post I definitely was and probably wasn’t the only one... unfortunately I am usually the first to speak up when appalling or shocking things are said or seen 🤭 And no the things I said I absolutely do not believe about all men, just one at the moment lol. 😉 In school I always got along better with boys than girls. I liked dirt, bugs, reptiles, climbing trees, never going inside and absolutely hated wearing a dress because those just got in the way of being able to do anything fun outside. I also believe men are meant to play a specific role for certain things as are women. What I think most understand in the verses regarding women being priest is a difference in intelligence and then one tries to elevate one above the other. That is what was being implied by a certain someone and that is not what those verses are saying.
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Post by venge on Jul 14, 2019 11:07:19 GMT -6
If women were pastoring and ushering and greeting, who would be in the nursery? 🤪 -obviously joking! The chaos that would form. Men changing diapers, men cooking for the Church’s brunch afterwards, and then the all male choir! Eee gads! What’s next, an all male fellowship team on Saturday mornings...wait we have that now.
But as was said, women and men have roles and both sexes are gifted by God with special gifts. Intellect or ability is not the issue for my family.
I value my wife’s thoughts on biblical matters. I am human and a sinner. When I try to follow God’s word...I hope my wife doesn’t obey me blindly. I want her to search scripture and follow God’s word, not mine. And out of great love for her, when she suggests things, I look into it too. It’s not me and than her or me and her following me. The 2 are 1 flesh. It’s us and we both want to please God and we both help each other to do us because we are both fleshly and weak!
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jul 14, 2019 12:39:19 GMT -6
Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you.”
and toward thy husband is thy desire, and he doth rule over thee.' Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you.”
3 versions of the same passage in scripture. Many human beings have taken this passage and made it a trash can of mis-understanding.
The whole story of the male, and then the creator of the female is not taught the way it should be. Yes indeed there is the literal physical. Yet deep within is a whole spiritual "law" that mankind (especially those of religious slant) have made into a den of thieves.
The "male" aspect/responsibility has to its roots in God our Father. What a father is and does it part of this. The male role of Coverings, role of Inheritance, role of what is a Son, this has to do with a Spiritual LAW set from the start. HAs nothing to do with the physical gender. The FLESHly aspect which is where the wo-man came from (she was not made from "dust" but from the RIB, of Adam). This sets the wo-man with her own spiritual role, which then is manifested in what we see here on earth. BUt always ALWAYS behind it is the spiritual TRUTH. Man CONSTANTLY is messing with the Truth by promoting things contrary to God's Truth.
I was so troubled that the Episc. church is denying the use of the male pronoun to describe our GOD, so as to allow the use of the female pronoun. This heresy is incredible in its lack of understanding the whole counsil of God, it saddens me to no end. How can a person be filled with the Holy Spirit, have a Seed planted within, to create a born-again person if the god that does this is female? The SEED is a specific rule of law established by our God! women can't PLANT a seed physically for good reason, but however, are given the gifts that are inherent to HER! Woman do not impregnate, men do this! IF I keep going I will make a mess of this topic. Every day I see why the world has this problem with women. with sex changes, with child abuse, with broken families (break down of the role of covering within a marriage). These are all shadows of the problem with mankind and his distortion of the role God put forth. When it leaks into the formality of the religions, it gets really bad.
It will all be revealed shortly.
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Post by Gary on Aug 16, 2019 9:32:53 GMT -6
An update: we're making great progress, but I've intentionally slowed down. A more definitive release is looking like this Fall or Jan. 2020 at the latest. I'm going to keep this thread limited to progress updates, questions, and Scriptures snippets. For discussion of other translations / KJV-only / debate, please start a separate thread. And I'm going to start giving some sneak peaks, starting with Isaiah 53. Note that this is still in the final editing phase, so there may be minor variations between this and the final text. - - - - - - - - - - - - "The Servant of the LORD" - An excerpt from the LSV Bible, taken from Isaiah 52 and 53. Learn more at lsvbible.com
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Post by Gary on Sept 4, 2019 15:40:01 GMT -6
Progress update: We are making steady progress and nearing the two-thirds mark on final proofing, currently working through Ezekiel.
I can give another sneak peak, this time at Genesis 1. There are still some potential changes that may be made to this chapter though.
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Post by Gary on Oct 22, 2019 15:39:31 GMT -6
A sneak peak from 2 Samuel 12:1-23:
And Psalm 26:
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Post by Gary on Dec 22, 2019 20:31:25 GMT -6
For those following along with this. I'm excited to announce that the proofing stage has been completed. God is good.
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