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Post by williaml on May 3, 2019 12:14:18 GMT -6
There was NO Covenant signed, confirmed, or enlarged with the Jewish people at any time during that time. Clearly you did not read the post very thoroughly. Vespasian both confirmed Rome's past covenant with the Jews, as well as with individual cities, as stated in the passages that i quoted by Josephus. |
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Post by kjs on May 3, 2019 15:09:58 GMT -6
There was NO Covenant signed, confirmed, or enlarged with the Jewish people at any time during that time. Clearly you did not read the post very thoroughly. Vespasian both confirmed Rome's past covenant with the Jews, as well as with individual cities, as stated in the passages that i quoted by Josephus. You Clearly do not read Any of the comments -- and keep rehashing over and over someone website who has already proven false!
THE TEMPLE and CITY are destroyed AFTER WEEK 69 AND BEFORE WEEK 70!!!!
The text in verse 26 clearly states that the city and temple are destroyed Daniel 9:26
"...shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary..."
The 70th week does NOT start until verse 27......
ANSWER -- that first -- HOW can (as that FALSE WEBSITE CLAIMS) -- have the temple destroyed in Mid-week of the 70th week --- since the week NEVER STARTED......(based on scripture)
THE TEMPLE IS DESTROYED BEFORE THE START OF WEEK 70!!!!! based on scripture NOT some websites "feelings"
The FALSE website says -- oh here is a seven week period -- we will call it filled prophecy -- EVEN THOUGH IT DOES NOT FIT THE TEXT!!!!
Look I see you own the website and you feel you need to protect it.....
BUT YOU MUST FOLLOW SCRIPTURE and the temple is destroyed BEFORE the 70th week starts (NOT DURING)!!!!
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Post by venge on May 3, 2019 16:53:32 GMT -6
All these are valid points and I have read some of them before. If the 70 weeks are completed, why is there 42 months left in Revelation? The only place we see 42 months that I recall is Daniel, half of a week. If it is not related to Daniel then where? Answered in part above. There is no "left" for the 42 months, because they have nothing to do with the 70th week of Daniel 9. Those who say so cannot provide any demonstrable End Time prophecy that mentions a 7 year period. I read the page. It did not answer my question |
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Post by mike on May 3, 2019 18:48:47 GMT -6
There was NO Covenant signed, confirmed, or enlarged with the Jewish people at any time during that time. Clearly you did not read the post very thoroughly. Vespasian both confirmed Rome's past covenant with the Jews, as well as with individual cities, as stated in the passages that i quoted by Josephus. Pump the brakes here brother! Civil discussion always please. |
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Post by kjs on May 7, 2019 14:13:40 GMT -6
Clearly you did not read the post very thoroughly. Vespasian both confirmed Rome's past covenant with the Jews, as well as with individual cities, as stated in the passages that i quoted by Josephus. You Clearly do not read Any of the comments -- and keep rehashing over and over someone website who has already proven false!
THE TEMPLE and CITY are destroyed AFTER WEEK 69 AND BEFORE WEEK 70!!!!
The text in verse 26 clearly states that the city and temple are destroyed Daniel 9:26
"...shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary..."
The 70th week does NOT start until verse 27......
ANSWER -- that first -- HOW can (as that FALSE WEBSITE CLAIMS) -- have the temple destroyed in Mid-week of the 70th week --- since the week NEVER STARTED......(based on scripture)
THE TEMPLE IS DESTROYED BEFORE THE START OF WEEK 70!!!!! based on scripture NOT some websites "feelings"
The FALSE website says -- oh here is a seven week period -- we will call it filled prophecy -- EVEN THOUGH IT DOES NOT FIT THE TEXT!!!!
Look I see you own the website and you feel you need to protect it.....
BUT YOU MUST FOLLOW SCRIPTURE and the temple is destroyed BEFORE the 70th week starts (NOT DURING)!!!!
I mentioned this before ... but will re-mention it again -- I like Chuck Missler teachings (and listen to several of his videos when I get the chance)...
Anyway, was watching one of his teachings -- and as he does several times before -- he repeats items he had already mention before -- even though it is a different teaching that he simply links together....
So He linked Daniel 9 into this teaching I was watching and I really like the way he said it .... so will repeat it here ....
He (Chuck M) said that Daniel 9 (the 70 weeks prophecy) -- had a built in Interval within the Prophecy itself.....
When he points out verse 26 being the Interval -- it was like --Ding, Ding, Ding -- thats the way I should explain it.
And I tried multiple times .... so will try it the way Chuck mentions it should be done ....
Verse 25 ENDS with week 69 being completed (Daniel 9:26 first phrase in verse 26 -- completes the thought) -- AFTER the 62 weeks -- or the 62 + 7 weeks) -- so AFTER 69 weeks
SEVERAL Events have to occur (as laid out by verse 26)
Yet verse 27 (Daniel 9:27) clearly defines the 70th week (or final week) --- so the prophecy itself -- spells out that this "time period" of the 70 weeks is not continuous ...
Because it inserts several events that have to take place --- AFTER the 69th week and BEFORE the 70th week......
that tells us (in the prophecy) that events are taking place in some sort of interval (time period) that is outside the 69th week and outside the 70th week....
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Post by williaml on May 8, 2019 10:07:30 GMT -6
Clearly you did not read the post very thoroughly. Vespasian both confirmed Rome's past covenant with the Jews, as well as with individual cities, as stated in the passages that i quoted by Josephus. You Clearly do not read Any of the comments -- and keep rehashing over and over someone website who has already proven false!
THE TEMPLE and CITY are destroyed AFTER WEEK 69 AND BEFORE WEEK 70!!!!
The text in verse 26 clearly states that the city and temple are destroyed Daniel 9:26
"...shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary..."
The 70th week does NOT start until verse 27......
ANSWER -- that first -- HOW can (as that FALSE WEBSITE CLAIMS) -- have the temple destroyed in Mid-week of the 70th week --- since the week NEVER STARTED......(based on scripture)
THE TEMPLE IS DESTROYED BEFORE THE START OF WEEK 70!!!!! based on scripture NOT some websites "feelings"
The FALSE website says -- oh here is a seven week period -- we will call it filled prophecy -- EVEN THOUGH IT DOES NOT FIT THE TEXT!!!!
Look I see you own the website and you feel you need to protect it.....
BUT YOU MUST FOLLOW SCRIPTURE and the temple is destroyed BEFORE the 70th week starts (NOT DURING)!!!!
Here is the relevant quote from Part 5 of my series on Daniel 9:24-27. Note the parts in boldface:
וְהִגְבִּי/And he shall cause to prevail/confirm; or, And he shall make strong [Hiphil Perfect 3ms with וְ/vav consecutive prefix] בְּרִית/a covenant לָרַבִּים/for the multitude שָׁבוּעַ/week אֶחָד/one…
“And he shall cause to prevail/confirm (or, shall make strong) a covenant for the multitude one week…”
Comment: A vav consecutive, also called a vav relative, is an unusual convention in Hebrew that changes a Perfect verb (completed action) into the effect of an Imperfect verb (incomplete action). They are commonly found, as here, at the beginning of a verse or phrase to continue a future tense sequence, the “consecutive,” the “relationship.” In this case, the narrative begins with the previous Hiphil Imperfect verb in verse 26, which is future tense: יַשְׁחִית/“he shall cause to destroy.” The narrative then continues in verse 27 with other future actions of the same “he.” The same man who is to cause the destruction of Jerusalem and Sanctuary also, as part of his actions, both causes [Hiphil] to confirm (or make) a covenant; and, as shown below, is the cause [Hiphil] of the cessation of blood sacrifices.// end of quote
To repeat, the Hebrew grammar shows that the same man that causes his people to destroy the city and the sanctuary also is the man that implements a covenant with the Jews in verse 27.
So all you claims of "proven false" are simply bogus. If can you find flaws in this analysis of the biblical Hebrew grammar, then show them. But I seriously doubt you have any proficiency in Hebrew at all.
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Post by kjs on May 8, 2019 10:33:31 GMT -6
You Clearly do not read Any of the comments -- and keep rehashing over and over someone website who has already proven false!
THE TEMPLE and CITY are destroyed AFTER WEEK 69 AND BEFORE WEEK 70!!!!
The text in verse 26 clearly states that the city and temple are destroyed Daniel 9:26
"...shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary..."
The 70th week does NOT start until verse 27......
ANSWER -- that first -- HOW can (as that FALSE WEBSITE CLAIMS) -- have the temple destroyed in Mid-week of the 70th week --- since the week NEVER STARTED......(based on scripture)
THE TEMPLE IS DESTROYED BEFORE THE START OF WEEK 70!!!!! based on scripture NOT some websites "feelings"
The FALSE website says -- oh here is a seven week period -- we will call it filled prophecy -- EVEN THOUGH IT DOES NOT FIT THE TEXT!!!!
Look I see you own the website and you feel you need to protect it.....
BUT YOU MUST FOLLOW SCRIPTURE and the temple is destroyed BEFORE the 70th week starts (NOT DURING)!!!!
Here is the relevant quote from Part 5 of my series on Daniel 9:24-27. Note the parts in boldface:
וְהִגְבִּי/And he shall cause to prevail/confirm; or, And he shall make strong [Hiphil Perfect 3ms with וְ/vav consecutive prefix] בְּרִית/a covenant לָרַבִּים/for the multitude שָׁבוּעַ/week אֶחָד/one…
“And he shall cause to prevail/confirm (or, shall make strong) a covenant for the multitude one week…”
Comment: A vav consecutive, also called a vav relative, is an unusual convention in Hebrew that changes a Perfect verb (completed action) into the effect of an Imperfect verb (incomplete action). They are commonly found, as here, at the beginning of a verse or phrase to continue a future tense sequence, the “consecutive,” the “relationship.” In this case, the narrative begins with the previous Hiphil Imperfect verb in verse 26, which is future tense: יַשְׁחִית/“he shall cause to destroy.” The narrative then continues in verse 27 with other future actions of the same “he.” The same man who is to cause the destruction of Jerusalem and Sanctuary also, as part of his actions, both causes [Hiphil] to confirm (or make) a covenant; and, as shown below, is the cause [Hiphil] of the cessation of blood sacrifices.// end of quote
To repeat, the Hebrew grammar shows that the same man that causes his people to destroy the city and the sanctuary also is the man that implements a covenant with the Jews in verse 27.
So all you claims of "proven false" are simply bogus. If can you find flaws in this analysis of the biblical Hebrew grammar, then show them. But I seriously doubt you have any proficiency in Hebrew at all.
Once again you refuse to follow scripture
Verse 26 states -- with no hesitancy the destruction of city and sanctuary occur after week 69 -- BUT BEFORE week 70 Daniel 9:26
Trying to play grammar gymnastics in the attempt to make it fit -- is worthless -- since
WEEK 70 does NOT start until the strengthening of the covenant takes place -- LONG AFTER the destruction....
we know that because verse 27 tells us "He will make a binding covenant with many for one week, ..."
That is week 70! The destruction happens before that -- just as scripture foretold....
It (the prophecy) does NOT say after the start of week 70 the temple will be destroyed ....
It says AFTER week 69 and BEFORE week 70 ... the temple will be destroyed.....
I have not argued who the man is that makes the covenant nor who is the leader of the people of the destruction ....
Because scripture shows they are different people .... but your too busy playing grammar gymnastics --- to care.....
Argue the case with scripture .... not made up grammar rules that you insist you are the only one that knows.........
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Post by williaml on May 8, 2019 10:56:47 GMT -6
Here is the relevant quote from Part 5 of my series on Daniel 9:24-27. Note the parts in boldface:
וְהִגְבִּי/And he shall cause to prevail/confirm; or, And he shall make strong [Hiphil Perfect 3ms with וְ/vav consecutive prefix] בְּרִית/a covenant לָרַבִּים/for the multitude שָׁבוּעַ/week אֶחָד/one…
“And he shall cause to prevail/confirm (or, shall make strong) a covenant for the multitude one week…”
Comment: A vav consecutive, also called a vav relative, is an unusual convention in Hebrew that changes a Perfect verb (completed action) into the effect of an Imperfect verb (incomplete action). They are commonly found, as here, at the beginning of a verse or phrase to continue a future tense sequence, the “consecutive,” the “relationship.” In this case, the narrative begins with the previous Hiphil Imperfect verb in verse 26, which is future tense: יַשְׁחִית/“he shall cause to destroy.” The narrative then continues in verse 27 with other future actions of the same “he.” The same man who is to cause the destruction of Jerusalem and Sanctuary also, as part of his actions, both causes [Hiphil] to confirm (or make) a covenant; and, as shown below, is the cause [Hiphil] of the cessation of blood sacrifices.// end of quote
To repeat, the Hebrew grammar shows that the same man that causes his people to destroy the city and the sanctuary also is the man that implements a covenant with the Jews in verse 27.
So all you claims of "proven false" are simply bogus. If can you find flaws in this analysis of the biblical Hebrew grammar, then show them. But I seriously doubt you have any proficiency in Hebrew at all.
Once again you refuse to follow scripture
Verse 26 states -- with no hesitancy the destruction of city and sanctuary occur after week 69 -- BUT BEFORE week 70 Daniel 9:26
Verse 26 makes no reference at all to "before week 70." You just made this up. |
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Post by williaml on May 8, 2019 11:00:04 GMT -6
Argue the case with scripture .... not made up grammar rules that you insist you are the only one that knows.........
Anyone who knows biblical Hebrew knows these rules. Clearly you do not know biblical Hebrew. Which makes it pointless to debate with you. |
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Post by kjs on May 8, 2019 15:34:35 GMT -6
Once again you refuse to follow scripture
Verse 26 states -- with no hesitancy the destruction of city and sanctuary occur after week 69 -- BUT BEFORE week 70 Daniel 9:26
Verse 26 makes no reference at all to "before week 70." You just made this up. READ the scripture... Each WEEK is counted off for you. The Last week is stated as such in verse 27..... Daniel 9:27 ONE WEEK -- or seven years .... spelled out for you
Verse26 -- destroy city / temple Verse 27 Last week (or 70th week)
Plain as day......
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on May 8, 2019 15:58:53 GMT -6
williaml , first of all, can you slow down a bit for me. I am researching the 70th week for my ownself, so do read what ALL submit for reason, but PLEASE, we are all on the same team here in discerning. To insinuate that one is not proficient in Hebrew for reasons x, or y is a distracting comment and the tone behind it is not reading in a positive Christ-loving way. You can offer help in this matter about Hebrew but help is not received when it could be perceived as an insult. This is not a life or death matter, so lets give each other a little grace! Give me a Hebrew lesson as I am not versed in it very well. I would like more than just Dan 9 as an example. Is there another example similar to your point for Dan 9 that shows us (or me rather) these grammatical similarities.
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Post by yardstick on May 8, 2019 22:01:07 GMT -6
Once again you refuse to follow scripture
Verse 26 states -- with no hesitancy the destruction of city and sanctuary occur after week 69 -- BUT BEFORE week 70 Daniel 9:26
Verse 26 makes no reference at all to "before week 70." You just made this up. I have questions about the week 69 and week 70. If week 69 ended 'before' the death of Christ, (Dan 9:26 - " After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ [plus the seven sevens] the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing." ) We would expect the last seven to result in the events described in Daniel 9:27 - So... somewhere around 40AD the rest of this prophecy should have occurred, assuming that there is no break between the end of week 69 and the beginning of week 70, correct? But what if there is a break, say.... where the last half of verse 26 occurs in 70AD? This begs questions: Do we have any indication of the duration of the time break that could occur between the end of verse 26 and the beginning of verse 27? Or how about after "sanctuary" and before "The end will come" in verse 26? "War will continue until the end..." Are we still having wars? If so, then the end is not yet, correct? Isn't there a break in thought (the definition of a sentence!) or subject matter between "decreed" and "He will confirm..."? |
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Post by yardstick on May 8, 2019 22:03:19 GMT -6
You Clearly do not read Any of the comments -- and keep rehashing over and over someone website who has already proven false!
THE TEMPLE and CITY are destroyed AFTER WEEK 69 AND BEFORE WEEK 70!!!!
The text in verse 26 clearly states that the city and temple are destroyed Daniel 9:26
"...shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary..."
The 70th week does NOT start until verse 27......
ANSWER -- that first -- HOW can (as that FALSE WEBSITE CLAIMS) -- have the temple destroyed in Mid-week of the 70th week --- since the week NEVER STARTED......(based on scripture)
THE TEMPLE IS DESTROYED BEFORE THE START OF WEEK 70!!!!! based on scripture NOT some websites "feelings"
The FALSE website says -- oh here is a seven week period -- we will call it filled prophecy -- EVEN THOUGH IT DOES NOT FIT THE TEXT!!!!
Look I see you own the website and you feel you need to protect it.....
BUT YOU MUST FOLLOW SCRIPTURE and the temple is destroyed BEFORE the 70th week starts (NOT DURING)!!!!
Here is the relevant quote from Part 5 of my series on Daniel 9:24-27. Note the parts in boldface:
וְהִגְבִּי/And he shall cause to prevail/confirm; or, And he shall make strong [Hiphil Perfect 3ms with וְ/vav consecutive prefix] בְּרִית/a covenant לָרַבִּים/for the multitude שָׁבוּעַ/week אֶחָד/one…
“And he shall cause to prevail/confirm (or, shall make strong) a covenant for the multitude one week…”
Comment: A vav consecutive, also called a vav relative, is an unusual convention in Hebrew that changes a Perfect verb (completed action) into the effect of an Imperfect verb (incomplete action). They are commonly found, as here, at the beginning of a verse or phrase to continue a future tense sequence, the “consecutive,” the “relationship.” In this case, the narrative begins with the previous Hiphil Imperfect verb in verse 26, which is future tense: יַשְׁחִית/“he shall cause to destroy.” The narrative then continues in verse 27 with other future actions of the same “he.” The same man who is to cause the destruction of Jerusalem and Sanctuary also, as part of his actions, both causes [Hiphil] to confirm (or make) a covenant; and, as shown below, is the cause [Hiphil] of the cessation of blood sacrifices.// end of quote
To repeat, the Hebrew grammar shows that the same man that causes his people to destroy the city and the sanctuary also is the man that implements a covenant with the Jews in verse 27.
So all you claims of "proven false" are simply bogus. If can you find flaws in this analysis of the biblical Hebrew grammar, then show them. But I seriously doubt you have any proficiency in Hebrew at all.
Is there a distinguishing characteristic of hebrew that would indicate that one future tense must be connected to another future tense in word usage? Or is it possible that two different future tense words could be sequential but without a definitive, specified time period between them? Does the future tense grammar specify that two future events must occur in tandem? |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2019 22:16:39 GMT -6
I have a futurist view, but recognize that other believers may not.....let's lay it out on the table without insulting one another, what a terrible witness. Let's lay out and discuss, without appealing to authority, appealing to intellectual background......please give me the best you have to support what you believe, and let me consider, maybe you will convince me, maybe not. Please refrain from pigeon holing others who may not see things the same way.....Let your view prevail or not in the conviction of the Spirit
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2019 22:32:21 GMT -6
William, please do not assume that the members of this board are unfamiliar with preterist or historicist viewpoints, even as the historian that you are. It is best to debate your viewpoint not from a presumed position of authority as a historian. We are familiar with your viewpoints, and are not convinced. Michael Vlach, Nelson Walters, Joel Richardson are but a few of other intellectuals as yourself who hold to different views from an intellectual standpoint, so to insult other believers by claiming they dont know Biblical Hebrew like you do is not edifying or productive.
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