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Post by boraddict on Oct 27, 2018 0:39:54 GMT -6
Recently I referenced the Parable of the Ten Virgins in a few of my postings, and so now I would like to show my analysis of this parable. The parable is about the coming of the Savior as stated in Verse 13 (KJV) as follows:"Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."
Therefore, the parable is an instruction to us, that we should watch for the coming of the Savior. The chiasmus and therefore the emphasis of the parable is easy to see in Verse 7 as follows: "Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps."
The question in my mind, is, Why is this verse (7) the emphasis of the parable? Why is the arising of the virgins the most important part.
What causes the virgins to arise, and this is given in Verse 6 that "At midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him." There is no doubt that the cry was the chapter 12 sign. We all saw it and we all know that it is true.
Since all ten virgins had their lamps and those lamps were instruments of light, then the lamps represent our active faith in Christ. All ten virgins start off with the same faith in Christ as represented by the lamps. That is, the light of the lamp is Christ, and the lamp is in the virgins possession; therefore, if the lamps are full then the virgins have a full testimony of Christ wherewith the lamps are lighted.
So, all ten virgins arose and trimed their lamps as stated in Verse 7. In other words, they lighted their lamps; they exercised their faith in Christ. That is, they joined the body of Christ via the lighting of their faith in Christ's return.
Yet, five of the virgins asked for oil of the other five virgins. That is, they ran out of faith and needed to be healed. The oil in the verse represents a terraphim much like a healing stone or any of the other earthly items that might be used to increase faith. In other words, five of the virgins started knocking their knees and doubted that Christ was coming. Thus, they needed to be reassured via the healing oil that represents their lack of faith.
The wise virgins when asked by the foolish said "Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves." The thing about this is, that for the foolish to go to them that sell is for them to go to the preachers that sell memberships and so forth like the LDS. The wise are saying, go to those who sell and have your faith healed by those preachers and teachers who are selling their services; go and purchase your faith from them because our faith is not for sale. Even if we wanted to give you faith, we could not.
At least that is what the parable is saying. The problem is, that it takes some dedication to keep our lamps full of oil. And when the Savior comes, we do not have time to get ready to go on the rapture; we must be ready right then. "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut."
So the message is, work now and seek diligently for the Savior's return and be ready.
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Post by socalexile on Oct 27, 2018 5:17:17 GMT -6
We have to be careful not to insert our reality into the text. We need to read the word and understand the history and cultural context. Jesus gave this discourse on Passover week. Every Passover they sing the Song of Solomon, it is possible that Jesus gave this parable on the day it is sung. In Chapter 3-4 of SoS you have the wise bride who waited for her groom, in chapter 5-8 you have a foolish virgin who missed him. Read the details. It is also not certain that Jesus is speaking about the 2nd coming since the Jews were already promised to the Groom and they weren't ready for His arrival, but the Gentiles were. No. That's adding works to salvation, and it is contradicted by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5. Paul uses two words for "sleep" in his writings. He uses both in 1 Thess. 4 and 5. In 1 Thess 4, the word is koimaō, like in v.15. This is Paul's word for dead Christians, to differentiate them from the dead unbelievers. In 1 Thess. 4 he uses that word to let the readers know that those believers that are physically dead will not miss the rapture. www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2837&t=KJV1 Thess. 5 is where it gets interesting. In verses 6 and 10 he switches to another word for sleep, katheudō, which according to BLB can metaphorically mean "yield to sloth and sin" or "to be indifferent to one's salvation". Why the switch if he meant the same thing as koimao earlier? Read verse 6, it makes no sense if he's talking about physically dead people. He's talking about not being given to sin and instead being alert for the Lord's return: www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2518&t=KJVAnd it's the same word in v.10., 9. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10. Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him Did you read that? Whether or not we are spiritually awake or yielded to sin, we will be with the Lord! It's a matter of rewards at the Bema Seat: bible.org/article/doctrine-rewards-judgment-seat-bema-christ
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Post by mike on Oct 27, 2018 7:57:24 GMT -6
BOR you are a deep studier of the Word and sometimes I think the presentation of that study may not come across when typed out as you meant it. As SoCal briefly explains the "sleep" terminology I would also like to ask if you consider the word "believe" in the context of your analysis? kjs had started a post regarding this topic (someplace) and it is one that has always had me wondering "who is saved and who isn't". There are those who truly place their faith in Christ as Savior and acknowledge Him in their daily lives. These are disciples, living for the Lord, committed to Him in their hearts. Though every one of those believers still sins, still yields to the flesh in one way or another and likely every day. I can say that I fit that category fairly well, yet my eyes are constantly looking up. Then there are those who believe but don't follow as disciples. I have a very close friend who likely fits this category. He 100% has faith that Jesus is the Son and his savior. But he isn't watching daily like you, me or others. Does that mean when Christ returns for His body He will leave pieces of the body behind, like my friend? I think what you may have been trying to say is there are those who will say "yeah I believe in Jesus" and that is the end of their story pertaining to faith in Him. Back to KJ's thread of having head knowledge and people who just say that Jesus is God. The thing I struggled with for years was this very thing. How could I follow very closely and be saved and someone else not following the way I do also be saved? The answer to that finally came to me about a year ago. With the help of SoCal and others I finally saw that we are all imperfect yet redeemed if we believe. I also realized that I am in no way shape or form qualified to make a determination as to who believes or not and am accountable to stand before Him all alone on that Day. So is every single person...everyone, each and everyone will stand alone before the great King, Judge and Savior and He gets to decide who believes and who doesn't whether they were watching or not.
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Post by boraddict on Oct 27, 2018 9:23:43 GMT -6
Thank you socal. I have always believed that the division between Matt. Chapters 24 and 25 was improperly placed. I would have divided the two chapters between Verses 24:35-36 because Verse 35 is the ending of the "words of the Savior" about his return, and the expansion upon those "words of the Savior" begin at Verse 36, with endings at Verses 24:42 and 25:13 in which we are told to watch and at Verses 24:51 and 25:30 with the "gnashing of teeth." Perhaps Chapters 24 and 25 should have simply been one large chapter, since the context of these two chapters addresses the question in Verse 24:3 about the sign of the Savior's coming, and the end of the world. Actually, I think Chapter 24 should have began at Verse 3 because the Savior did not expand upon the stones of the temple being thrown down at all. He simply made a comment about the destruction of the temple, and later while sitting upon the mount of Olives, he was asked to speak about his second coming. Thus, Verses 24:1-2 should have been included with Chapter 23. I suppose these two verses (24:1-2) were included with the Savior's mount of Olives talk (24:3-25:46) because there was some connection drawn between the destruction of the temple in 70 AD and the Savior's return. However, those two events are separate and distinct except perhaps to a latter day application. That is, the "stones" metaphorically representing the people of Judah being thrown down. In that context or some similar metaphorical application then Verses 24:1-2 would be included with the remainder of Lord Jesus' Chapter 24-25 talk, but not as a literal application of the stones being thrown down in 70 AD. So when you say "It is also not certain that Jesus is speaking about the 2nd coming," I disagree because the whole of Chapters 24-25 is in response to the question in Verse 24:3 about his second coming. Secondly, I do agree with your assessment that "since the Jews were already promised to the Groom and they weren't ready for His arrival, but the Gentiles were," that the Jews were thrown down as referenced in the metaphorical application of the stones of the temple being thrown down in Verses 24:1-2. Interestingly, in that light, the stones of the temple were brought back and the temple was rebuilt metaphorically in 1948 with the return of Judah to their homeland. Another great point that you made is "No. That's adding works to salvation, and it is contradicted by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5. Paul uses two words for "sleep" in his writings. He uses both in 1 Thess. 4 and 5." This was in response to my statement that "The problem is, that it takes some dedication to keep our lamps full of oil. And when the Savior comes, we do not have time to get ready to go on the rapture; we must be ready right then." When I wrote that I was hoping to encourage others to draw close to Christ, or at least frighten them to do so. However, you are right that works is "out" when we are speaking about salvation. There is nothing we can do but turn to Christ and we have salvation. There is no service project, no good works of any kind to help us in our salvation. We simply turn to the Savior and he saves us. However, the rapture and salvation are two different things, except in a metaphorical application in which salvation from sin is represented as rapture from the world or something like that. But literally, the rapture as you and I know is the taking of Christ's people off the earth, and in this context "works" is critical. We must work at following Christ via watching for his second coming. Those who do not watch are not considered ready. Interestingly, in the parable, none of them were watching in the beginning; so none of them were ready. The verse states "While the bride groom tarried they all slumbered and slept" (v. 24:5). But when the cry came, "Then all of those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps" (v. 7). So what divided the virgins into two groups? Some "slumbered and slept" again, and some did not. In other words, there is a period of time between the "cry" of Verse 6 and the arrival of the Savior in Verse 10. It was during this period of time that the unwise noticed they did not have enough oil in their lamps. That is, they did not expect a second period of waiting. They thought that the cry would come and the Savior would return. But that did not happen. The "cry" came and the Savior tarried between the "cry" and his return. Thus, the unwise virgins became exhausted while waiting, and were not ready. The wise told them to go and buy their needed oil, and when they went to buy, the Savior came and the door was shut. That is, when they went to get what they lacked by virtue of the waiting, the Savior came. Thus, the waiting, that they had not planned for, caused their downfall. But, those who were ready to wait this extended amount of time were successful. This makes me think of Moses and how the people had waited for such a long time. And then the Lord sent Moses and the people had to wait again. It was during this second period of waiting that some became exhausted and impatient. Yet, the Lord did come and take them all away. The first period of waiting was like, 400 years, and the second period of waiting was perhaps 3 or 4 months. It was simply a matter of the Lord working out the details of the exodus. The same is in our time. The Lord is now working out the details of the rapture. Not with us, but with others.
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Post by boraddict on Oct 27, 2018 10:27:51 GMT -6
kjs had started a post regarding this topic (someplace) and it is one that has always had me wondering "who is saved and who isn't". Thank you Mike. While there is a connection between salvation and the rapture, they are not one and the same. Salvation pertains to all saints being saved, and the rapture is the event of the people living upon the earth at this time being spared the wicked destruction of the beast. However, in a larger context, they are one and the same that the rapture includes all saints. So I think we can say there is a rapture of saints from the earth in "a harvest of the mortal living," and a rapture of the saints from the earth in "a harvest of the mortal dead." So, lets set aside the larger picture of those saints whom have passed on to the grave and concentrate on the mortal living. Of the living, we are concerned with the wickedness of the world and we want to be saved from it. Not only that, but we want to be saved from sin. But, lets not look at being saved from sin but from the world that is going to be controlled by the beast. So I guess we could say there are categories and I am speaking of the third line in the category as follows: I) rapture of all saints saved from sin 1) rapture of the mortal living who are upon the earth at this time a) rapture of those who are ready at the Savior's coming and this is the barley harvest (Matt. 25:10) and the cloud in Rev. 14:14 b) rapture of those who become ready after the Savior's coming but during the tribulation and this is the wheat harvest (Rev. 14:16) c) rapture of those who become ready after the wheat harvest when they are pressed in the grape harvest (Rev. 14:19) 2) rapture of the mortal dead when they come forth from the graves II) rapture of the spiritually dead to their eternal damnation 1) rapture of those who refuse the salvation from sin 2) rapture of the wicked 3) rapture of the wicked of the second death I counted everything as rapture to show the largest use of the word. Notice in the first category of rapture are those saved from sin (I) in contrast to those that are not saved from sin (II). Now to focus on the Parable of the Ten Virgins, the rapture that we are concerned with is item I1a which are those saved from sin that are mortal living and are in the first harvest. Since these saints are free from sin then the dividing point is not salvation from sin but watching for the Savior's second coming and living to that end. Those of the I1b rapture are only differentiated from the I1a rapture by their decision to not be watching for the Saviors second coming; thus, they were not ready.
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Post by mike on Oct 27, 2018 10:50:57 GMT -6
Ok thank you for elaborating on that more. I was following you up until the last paragraph. Mind if I paraphrase my understanding of what you said? Let's just say the rapture happens tomorrow for argument sake. I am referring to 1Thes 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Are you saying that not everyone who trusts in Christ, believes He is the Son of God who takes away the sin of the world will not be included in this because they may not be watching for Him (tomorrow)?
So then if I am understanding what you said only some of the dead would rise? Only those were were anticipating His return, but those who weren't will remain in their graves until the wheat?
Am I not understanding you still?
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Post by boraddict on Oct 27, 2018 13:02:57 GMT -6
Are you saying that not everyone who trusts in Christ, believes He is the Son of God who takes away the sin of the world will not be included in this because they may not be watching for Him (tomorrow)? So then if I am understanding what you said only some of the dead would rise? Only those were were anticipating His return, but those who weren't will remain in their graves until the wheat? Okay. I see what you are saying. The chronological order is: 1) The beast attacks and destroys Babylon (Rev. 17:1-6, 13:1-18, 17:7-18), and the 7 years of tribulation begin. The beast will rule the earth for a total of 3.5 years (the 1st woe) but before he can take the saints of God, and just as Babylon falls, the rapture begins (Rev. 18:4). The rapture I1a (see my previous post), that is the rapture of the barley, is the first phase of the total overall rapture of the justified. This first phase of the larger rapture includes the living mortal men and women that are ready and watching for the return of Christ. These people are taken to a location here upon the earth and are protected from the beast. 2) God's response to the beast overtaking the earth is to put him down in the second woe of Rev. Chapter 9. This destruction of the beast also frees the saints of God in the harvest of the wheat (Rev. 14:16). This gathering of the wheat (I1b of my previous post) is the gathering of saints whom suffered under the hand of the beast (Rev. 13:7) to a location here upon the earth to be with the saints of the barley harvest. This is the opening of the 7th seal at Rev. 8:1 and the following regional wars upon the earth including another (regional) beast and false prophet that come to destroy Israel. The length of time following the second woe is 3.5 years. 3) Now is the third woe and the pressing of the grapes (I1c of my previous post) that might yield yet another harvest of saints. This is where 1Thes. 4:15-17 applies 15-17, "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." So in answer to your question, all of Christ's people will be taken. Both the living and the dead. However, like the Savior having a process to the exodus at Moses' time, he also has a methodology now during our time. It involves the three harvests that are included within the three woes of the BoR. The question that is difficult to answer is How does he present himself to the saints of the barley harvest. It is reasonable that he is represented by the 144,000 in the wheat harvest and the pressing of the grapes. But, how does he present himself when the leading edge of the rapture begins? It is clearly stated that when the grand finally of the rapture takes place he comes in the sky. But, at the beginning of the tribulation when the beast makes his move what does the Savior do to make the barley harvest happen. It is therefore my understanding that we will be taken in a rapture, all at once, to some place here upon the earth. Thus, the barley harvest is a rapture that is just as awesome as the harvest that involves the taking of the dead and living in the air at the ending of it all.
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Post by socalexile on Oct 27, 2018 13:19:23 GMT -6
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Post by boraddict on Oct 28, 2018 10:07:51 GMT -6
Thank you socal. I really like the young woman in the video and she is strong in her testimony.
After my last posting I noticed that the rapture spans the entire seven years of tribulation. Saints are taken in the beginning of the tribulation, saints are taken in the middle, and saints are taken at the ending.
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Post by boraddict on Oct 29, 2018 2:05:42 GMT -6
Chapter 14 links to the three woes
Verse 14:1 links to Verses 7: 1-8 and 9:4 via the seal of God in the foreheads of the 144,000 Verse 14:2 links to Verses 7:9-12 and 19:1-10 via the great multitude, voice of many waters and voice of great (mighty) thunder Verses 14:3-5 link to Verses 7:13-17 via the great tribulation from which they were redeemed (came out of) Verse 14:6 links to Verse 8:13 via the angel flying in the midst of heaven Verse 14:7 links to Verse 19:2 via the judgment of God has come upon Babylon Verse 14:8 links to Verse 18:1-24 via the fall of Babylon Verse 14:9-11 links to Verses 13:1-18 via the mark of the beast Verse 14:12 links to Verses 12:17 and 13:7 via the persecution of the saints Verse 14:13 links to Verse 19:9 via Write, Blessed
The above verses (14:1-13 and the linking verses) pertain to the first woe as found in Chapter 9 Verses 1-12.
Verse 14:14 links to Verses 19:10-19 via Son of Man and his army Verse 14:15-16 links to Verses 19:20-21 via the war between Christ and his army against the beast and his false prophet
The above verses (14:14-16 and the linking verses) pertain to the second woe as found in Chapter 9 Verses 13-21.
Verse 14:17 links to Verse 8:3, 11:19, 15:5 via the angel coming out of the temple Verse 14:18 links to Verse 8:5 via the fire of the altar Verse 14:19-20 links to Verse 6:12-17, 11:18, 16:18-21 via the wrath of God
The above verses (14:17-20 and the linking verses) pertain to the third woe as found in Chapter 11 Verses 15-19.
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Post by boraddict on Oct 29, 2018 10:02:30 GMT -6
Continuing from my previous posting about Revelation Chapter 14. The chronological order of that chapter shows the following:
In the 1st woe that is the beast taking control of the earth (the next war), the following takes place: 1) The 144,000 are sealed 2) The marriage of Lord Jesus takes place 3) The 144,000 are enraptured from the great tribulation (redeemed, came out of; this is the harvest of the barley that is the saints that are ready for the harvest) 4) The call of the angel (this is associated with the call in the Parable of Ten Virgins and the Chapter 12 sign) 5) The judgment of God has come upon Babylon 6) The fall of Babylon 7) The mark of the beast (the beast rules the earth for 3.5 years) 8) The persecution of the saints 9) Blessed are the saints that make it to the marriage and those who die henceforth, their works do follow them (meaning, blessed army of God)
In the second woe that is Lord Jesus putting down the beast, the following takes place: 10) Son of Man and his army take to the field. This is Rev. 1:7 where every eye shall see him when they see his army) 11) Christ and his army defeat the beast and his false prophet and their army. Following this war the saints throughout the earth are harvested in the wheat harvest, the second rapture of saints that perhaps lasts for the entire 3.5 years. Here again is Rev. 1:7 where every eye shall see him when they see the missionaries (the sealed 144,000) going throughout the earth looking for saints and those who wish to convert. It is a great rapture of saints from the wickedness of a fallen world.
In the third woe that is the cleansing of the earth, the following takes place: 12) The fire of the altar (This appears to be the rapture of the dead saints and living saints from off the earth) 13) The wrath of God that is the changing of the planet into a new earth
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