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Post by Natalie on Sept 17, 2018 12:01:38 GMT -6
So many people think that just because it didn't happen on the FOT then the Jewish calendar is off, they needed a leap month, or whatever. I do think that they do not use the sighting of the moon as was instructed. We saw that this year. They have gone with convenience of an established calendar. Humans like convenience (that was one of our sermon points yesterday and also very obvious to me as I went grocery shopping this morning). However, does FOT ever happen around the 10th of Oct? Can anyone show me when it has happened that late? Here is a calendar chart from 2013 to 2022. The latest it is in those 10 years is Oct 3. www.tedmontgomery.com/holydays/ Here is one that goes back before that and the latest is Sept 30. www.moresureword.com/FeastDates.htm (Just for fun, I may look up each of those FOT dates on Stellarium later) I do not know if it happens on a feast day. I think when it does happen then it will make perfect sense. God is a God of order and knows exactly what He is doing and why.
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Post by mike on Sept 17, 2018 12:15:04 GMT -6
and has made some things difficult for us to figure out (prophecy wise) Natalie Theres reasons for this all not being so obvious MANY...
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Post by kjs on Sept 17, 2018 13:26:33 GMT -6
Well we are 70 years from the 1948 -- re-establishment of Israel. We are 51 years from the 1967 -- when Israel had Jerusalem returned (or is that captured)
In Genesis we see this .....
"As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him. Then the Lord said to him, “Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there... In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here... (Gen 15:16)
Here a generation is 100 years (4 * 100 = 400 years)
(Psalm 90:10). Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures; yet the best of them are but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away.
"70 years" is a generation according to the average age of a man at his death, rather then when his first child is born (as with the example of Abraham).
A generation in the bible is primarily the age of a man when his first male child is born; but secondarily, the age of a man at his death. The bible then rounds the exact span of years in a "generation" to be 40 and 100 years as the primary usage, but on occasion, "70 years". And 70 is the average of 40 and 100, which allow the three time-frames to work in numeric harmony to produce the numeric symmetry found throughout the bible. The usage of the 100-year generation predominates in the bible prior to the time of Moses when men lived longer, but 40 years after Moses.
So we could be waiting another 30 years -- if 1948 is used AND a generation is 100
or waiting 19 years -- if 1967 is used AND a generation is 70 .....
OR (and becoming my own opinion) the rapture is not time dependent and is really unknown.......
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Post by Natalie on Sept 17, 2018 13:36:23 GMT -6
I look around at the increase in earthquakes, the hurricanes and flooding, everything going on in the Middle East, Russia/Turkey/Iran, the pressure on Israel and Jerusalem, the push for peace...
we don't have 30 years...
I don't think we have 19 years...
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Post by uscgvet on Sept 17, 2018 13:55:24 GMT -6
Psalm 75:2 “When I choose the proper time,I will judge uprightly."
"proper time" = mō·w·‘êḏ; מוֹעֵ֑ד; appointed time; appointed feast; sacred season
Most likely, it's a feast day...
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Post by stormyknight on Sept 17, 2018 14:22:53 GMT -6
Here is a calendar chart from 2013 to 2022. The latest it is in those 10 years is Oct 3. www.tedmontgomery.com/holydays/ Here is one that goes back before that and the latest is Sept 30. www.moresureword.com/FeastDates.htm (Just for fun, I may look up each of those FOT dates on Stellarium later)I do not know if it happens on a feast day. I think when it does happen then it will make perfect sense. God is a God of order and knows exactly what He is doing and why. @natalie, when you do, take notice of when the sun crosses the 180° meridian on each year. I plan on doing the same thing tonight, if I can. Is it possible that perhaps those who keep the calendars were deceived into incorrectly posting this year's Feast days? I believe it is. I watched Scottie's video and that thought occurred to me. If one is deluded and our Heavenly Father reinforces that delusion, (2 Thess. 2:11), then it's reasonable that that person would not even consider there is an error. And why would it be wrong this year? HMMMMMmmmm?
I'm with all ya'll. I don't know how much longer I can take waking up the day after another 'High Watch Day'.
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Post by Natalie on Sept 17, 2018 14:43:43 GMT -6
stormyknight -- Not sure what I'd be looking for anyway. A pattern of some kind maybe. not necessarily directed to stormyknight -- I'm just not quite buying into the idea that the Jews have been wrong all this time. Or is it just this year that Scotty thinks they are wrong? I will admit that I didn't watch his video. I will try to make time for that tonight also. (But do I understand correctly that he thinks FOT must take place with the sun in Virgo and the moon at her feet?)
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Post by Natalie on Sept 17, 2018 18:10:01 GMT -6
Ok, I have watched part of the end of Scotty's video; I have pulled up Stellarium and Torahcalendar. I'm using those two in conjunction because Torah Calendar lets me know when the new moon is visible if I can't tell for sure on Stellarium.
I think I've already spotted a problem with Scotty's theory.
2008 - According to the chart I found it was Sept 30. Torah Calendar says it should have been Sept 1st. So, I looked at both. Sept 1st the sun was still in Leo and the moon was by Virgo's raised arm. Sept 30th and the moon was at her "waist" (the sun was clothing her like we saw last Sept). Neither at her feet. So, I looked at October. The 27th was the new moon, and the sun was at Virgo's "knees" and the moon was at her waist area. So, what happens then? No FOT?
Also, why would the NT need to tell us when the FOT is? Christians don't need to mark when FOT is.
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Post by uscgvet on Sept 17, 2018 18:11:13 GMT -6
Ok, I have watched part of the end of Scotty's video; I have pulled up Stellarium and Torahcalendar. I'm using those two in conjunction because Torah Calendar lets me know when the new moon is visible if I can't tell for sure on Stellarium. I think I've already spotted a problem with Scotty's theory. 2008 - According to the chart I found it was Sept 30. Torah Calendar says it should have been Sept 1st. So, I looked at both. Sept 1st the sun was still in Leo and the moon was by Virgo's raised arm. Sept 30th and the moon was at her "waist" (the sun was clothing her like we saw last Sept). Neither at her feet. So, I looked at October. The 27th was the new moon, and the sun was at Virgo's "knees" and the moon was at her waist area. So, what happens then? No FOT? Also, why would the NT need to tell us when the FOT is? Christians don't need to mark when FOT is. You have to watch the whole video to understand... not just the last part. (edit, ok... if you start at about 6 minutes you should be OK) Scottie is basing his theory that fall doesn't begin until the sun passes the 180 degree point (Autumnal Equinox). And that FoT is a Fall feast. Jews are picking dates that are still in the summer timeframe.
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Post by Natalie on Sept 17, 2018 18:13:44 GMT -6
Ok, thanks uscgvet. I picked the end because someone said that the last part was the most meaty part. I will try to watch all of it if my kids let me. My husband is gone this evening, so I can't make him entertain them Oops, I commented before you were done editing. I just picked up from Scotty that the sun needed to move from Leo to Virgo (and I get that) but also that the moon had to be under her feet because of Rev 12.
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Post by davewatchman on Sept 17, 2018 19:19:34 GMT -6
So many people think that just because it didn't happen on the FOT then the Jewish calendar is off, they needed a leap month, or whatever. I do think that they do not use the sighting of the moon as was instructed. We saw that this year. They have gone with convenience of an established calendar. Humans like convenience (that was one of our sermon points yesterday and also very obvious to me as I went grocery shopping this morning). However, does FOT ever happen around the 10th of Oct? Can anyone show me when it has happened that late? Here is a calendar chart from 2013 to 2022. The latest it is in those 10 years is Oct 3. www.tedmontgomery.com/holydays/ Here is one that goes back before that and the latest is Sept 30. www.moresureword.com/FeastDates.htm (Just for fun, I may look up each of those FOT dates on Stellarium later) I do not know if it happens on a feast day. I think when it does happen then it will make perfect sense. God is a God of order and knows exactly what He is doing and why. I think so too. I pretty much agree with you. But i don't want to say anything too critical of the Jews or of Scottie or thereby the people that follow them. The Jews did miss the time of the first Visitation, and i'm pretty sure they were celebrating Passover on the wrong day during Passion week. So they are not my go to source to believe without question. But that having been said... I'm looking at a repeating pattern of Passover/ Sukkot. These tetrad examples in time might help to confirm the accuracy of the appointed times. It's pretty hard to fake four moons full of feast days. The calendar can't be that far out of whack. In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue, there were four blood moons and God was opening up a new continent. It would be the first nation on the planet complete with a Bible belt. The earth that would help the woman after 1260 years of Pay Pal Persecution came to an end. America, America, God shed His Grace on thee. Passover/ Sukkot, Passover/ Sukkot. Passover/ Sukkot, Passover/ Sukkot. Passover/ Sukkot, Passover/ Sukkot. Passover/ Sukkot, Passover/ Sukkot. Passover/ Sukkot, Passover/ Sukkot.
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Post by Natalie on Sept 17, 2018 19:51:46 GMT -6
I think so too. I pretty much agree with you. But i don't want to say anything too critical of the Jews or of Scottie or thereby the people that follow them. I don't want to be too critical either, but I do like truth. I like to double check what people are talking about if I can. Last year people were saying that the Rev 12 sign had happened before, and they would give a date. Looking up that date, the sky did not look like the sky on Sept 23. But yet, they had people who would readily agree with them. Just following along without double checking anything. I am glad that Scotty is still searching, still studying; I just want to make sure of what he's saying. And I agree with you about the tetrads. I think the feasts are happening exactly when God wants them, too. I'm sure if the FOT is supposed to be in Oct then somehow He will let more than just Scotty know. Or others will verify what Scotty is saying like they did when he discovered the Rev 12 sign.
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Post by Natalie on Sept 18, 2018 1:19:35 GMT -6
Here are some thoughts that occurred to me:
Are they ever called "fall feasts" in Scripture? Is the equinox ever mentioned in Scripture? Are people to use the equinox, the sun, or the moon to determine when the feasts are?
I get that "fall feasts" should take place in the fall and "spring feasts" should take place in the spring. But what if we take that label away? I know that some years need a leap month and that is determined by the barley harvest which is needed for the Passover feasts. Not by an equinox. No leap month was needed this year. So then FOT is the seventh month by moon phase from then. A lot of times FOT happens before the equinox.
Am I being too nit picky? It is possible, but I am awake at 2am with all these thoughts.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2018 2:06:35 GMT -6
Business as usual. Every year in fall the prophetic temperature rises. We all as watchers have to be careful about to (not) raising a hype and wild expectations. Do we hope to be raptured soon? Yes! (at least most of the members here, I suppose ) Does our faith depend on the (hopefully) near fulfilment of the rapture? I don't hope so.
Don't get me wrong, I simply want to avoid people being disappointed and turning away from Christ and from watching if nothing happens. (We have seen this last year, when 09-23 came and went)
Our hopes should be founded in JESUS alone and on what HE has done for us on the cross.
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Post by socalexile on Sept 18, 2018 5:54:36 GMT -6
The main issues I see with Scotty's logic in his video is that he claims that the New Testament reveals the time, but out of the three (IIRC) NT verses he cites, two are out of context and don't support his argument, and the third is a half-quote of Revelation 12:1 where he ignores the part about the crown of 12 stars.
Also, he's trying to maintain the idea that being born again doesn't happen at the moment of faith by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit but something that will happen in the Rapture. Yet in trying to maintain that view, he's basically tossing out the entire alignment from last year and not sticking to what the Bible says about the great sign. IMO he needs to not doubt what God plainly set in the heavens last year and instead reexamine his premise about being born again.
Not saying it won't happen when he says, but that his justification for this view is weak IMO.
Yes, our hopes should be in what Jesus has already done and not worry about what the world says we must do.
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