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Post by witness1 on Apr 17, 2018 16:11:34 GMT -6
I'm not sure whether I've formed an opinion yet, but, beginning with those pictures I posted of the vatican in the unmistakable form of a snake (google "Vatican snake" if you haven't seen them), I have begun to look into some of the reasons why people think Rome is Mystery Babylon. It appears, as far as I have studied, that at its highest levels, the church is a mask for Satan worship. That the statues we see all over... of Mary and child and of a woman weeping over the dead body of Jesus, are in reality worshiping the goddess Diana and "weeping for Tammuz", which is one of the very abominations mentioned in Ezekiel 8 when Ezekiel digs a hole through the wall to see into the abominations taking place inside the temple. I still have a lot to learn so this is not me arguing for a position, but rather I'm saying, "Wow... there seems to be something very, very wrong here. Does anyone want to look at it with me?"
But, instead of going straight to illuminati/free mason/idol worship theory... let's start with the Biblical references to Mystery Babylon.
I found the argument by this nice man extremely convincing:
In addition, we see in Revelation 18:4 that the Lord says, "Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues, for her sins are heaped high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities."
This seems to me to be saying that there are true followers of Christ within Mystery Babylon. If America were Babylon, could God tell us to "come out of her"? Are all Christians supposed to physically leave America? There are a lot of sins in America, but I personally am not taking part in them. How can I, as a true follower of Christ, come out of her? I just don't see how people think America is Mystery Babylon. So if it's not America, is there any other system in the world which has true followers of Christ within it while being a system that people could choose to leave, other than Catholicism? I am looking forward to your thoughts and will keep you posted on my studies.
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Post by Natalie on Apr 17, 2018 16:47:48 GMT -6
I have assumed that it was the RCChurch for reasons you listed. I look forward to seeing what you found. I will watch the video later this evening.
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Post by fitz on Apr 17, 2018 18:28:06 GMT -6
I've have seen this theory posited for 40 years and can easily see why it's a possibility. Since I was a teenager I have waffled back and forth between the RCC and America. The RCC fits the description in Rev. pretty perfectly though.
Interested to see what you gather for evidence.
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Post by barb84 on Apr 17, 2018 18:55:17 GMT -6
I read the book by Dave Hunt several years ago called "A Woman Rides the Beast." He goes into a lot of detail about the Roman Catholic church. It was very informative.
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Post by venge on Apr 18, 2018 10:07:51 GMT -6
We must look at a few things: Does Catholic Rome persecute Jews today? Does Catholic Rome want Israeli land? Do Catholics deny Christ? Do Catholics kill by the sword? Is Catholicism (misspelled) a fast growing religion today to encompass the globe? Is the Catholic religion a pagan religion? Do they worship a god of forces/fortresses. Ie conquering Do they have food that is considered for idols? Do they think they are Jews? Is the religion historically from Ishmael or Esau? Does The Vatican or Rome have slaves? Does either have enough wealth to rival most of Europe or the Middle East? Is Rome considered a wilderness? Does Rome sit on 7 mountains, not literal mountains. How does Vatican Rome control the world? Do they possess weapons of mass destruction? How would the Vatican under Catholicism get Muslims to join their army in order to take Israel and follow their religion? The people of the prince that comes destroys the city etc....but Josephus points out almost all of the people there under the Romans were actually Arabs and Syrians. How would it be Italy? I have more but I thought here is a start  |
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Post by Natalie on Apr 18, 2018 10:31:17 GMT -6
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Post by sog on Apr 18, 2018 14:23:37 GMT -6
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Post by fitz on Apr 18, 2018 15:39:15 GMT -6
We must look at a few things: I can't answer them all, but this is my personal take on a few. It is not my intention to hurt any Catholic, but I just call 'em as I see 'em. It's the RCC, not Catholics per se that I take issue with. IMHO. ~FitzDoes Catholic Rome persecute Jews today? The RCC has always hated the Jews (The Lutheran Church inherited this hatred as well, but have since recanted) because they crucified Jesus. However, it was the Father that ordered His execution.Do Catholics deny Christ? They do when they deny He is the ONLY way to be reconciled to the Father by adding a co-redemtrix in Mary and a works based salvation.Do Catholics kill by the sword? Spanish Inquisition? I took a class in college and learned all about the bloody popes through the ages.Is Catholicism (misspelled) a fast growing religion today to encompass the globe? It's the biggest, I do believe.Is the Catholic religion a pagan religion? Absolutely. The Pope's word is equal to scripture? Indulgences, praying to statues (idols) and dead saints. Purgatory. Transubstantiation is blasphemy!Does The Vatican or Rome have slaves? I've talked to a few former Catholics and many tell me it was like being chained. Chained to a dead religion. And they say salvation comes through the "mother church"..so if you leave, it's hell for you. How many minds have been tormented with that? Bondage.Does either have enough wealth to rival most of Europe or the Middle East? The RCC has always been fabulously wealthy. Dripping with gold and precious things. That's why they could afford those amazing cathedrals. Though, in recent times their wealth seems somewhat diminished.Does Rome sit on 7 mountains, not literal mountains. 7 Hills of Rome. The seven hills of Rome east of the river Tiber form the geographical heart of Rome, within the walls of the city.How does Vatican Rome control the world? A couple billion Catholics make up powerful voting blocks in many countries. This is why all of our Presidents and most world leaders meet with the Pope. It would be foolish politically not to. |
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Post by sog on Apr 18, 2018 16:17:12 GMT -6
Also,
Do Catholics kill by the sword?
Revelation 17:6 “I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.”
“History of the Rise and Influence of the Spirit of Rationalism in Europe, Vol. 2″ documents “That the Church of Rome has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed among mankind will be questioned by no Protestant who has a complete knowledge of history.”
Historians estimate that during the Dark Ages and the Inquisition, the Roman Catholic Church killed over 50 million people whom they deemed as heretics, most of which were Christians who dared to own a Bible (which the Church forbid) or proclaimed the Gospel of Christ.
At one event, remembered as the St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre, an estimated 100,000 Huguenots (Protestant Christians in France) were slaughtered.
In Spain alone the number of condemned exceeded three million, with about 300,000 burned at the stake during the length of the Spanish Inquisition. (Source: Page 259 of an updated version of “Foxe’s Book of Martyrs”; 2001; Publisher: Bridge-Logos.)
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Post by venge on Apr 19, 2018 14:00:27 GMT -6
We must look at a few things: I can't answer them all, but this is my personal take on a few. It is not my intention to hurt any Catholic, but I just call 'em as I see 'em. It's the RCC, not Catholics per se that I take issue with. IMHO. ~FitzDoes Catholic Rome persecute Jews today? The RCC has always hated the Jews (The Lutheran Church inherited this hatred as well, but have since recanted) because they crucified Jesus. However, it was the Father that ordered His execution.Do Catholics deny Christ? They do when they deny He is the ONLY way to be reconciled to the Father by adding a co-redemtrix in Mary and a works based salvation.Do Catholics kill by the sword? Spanish Inquisition? I took a class in college and learned all about the bloody popes through the ages.Is Catholicism (misspelled) a fast growing religion today to encompass the globe? It's the biggest, I do believe.Is the Catholic religion a pagan religion? Absolutely. The Pope's word is equal to scripture? Indulgences, praying to statues (idols) and dead saints. Purgatory. Transubstantiation is blasphemy!Does The Vatican or Rome have slaves? I've talked to a few former Catholics and many tell me it was like being chained. Chained to a dead religion. And they say salvation comes through the "mother church"..so if you leave, it's hell for you. How many minds have been tormented with that? Bondage.Does either have enough wealth to rival most of Europe or the Middle East? The RCC has always been fabulously wealthy. Dripping with gold and precious things. That's why they could afford those amazing cathedrals. Though, in recent times their wealth seems somewhat diminished.Does Rome sit on 7 mountains, not literal mountains. 7 Hills of Rome. The seven hills of Rome east of the river Tiber form the geographical heart of Rome, within the walls of the city.How does Vatican Rome control the world? A couple billion Catholics make up powerful voting blocks in many countries. This is why all of our Presidents and most world leaders meet with the Pope. It would be foolish politically not to.I would change the questions to say “Today”. Do Catholics do X today? Do they use the sword today. Do they deny Christ today? Rome does not sit on 7 mountains. Mountains is the correct translation from Koine Greek. It was not literal. Edit: another issue is the last beast. Rome is not part of its makeup. It’s not lion, leopard or bear. Rome was also the 6th of 8 heads. The one that “is” yet John was told the final beast “was” and will be the 8th. If the final “was” before John’s time, which then is before the 6th (Rome), then it cannot be Rome because the text plainly states such. Ref: Babylon |
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Post by fitz on Apr 30, 2018 7:56:43 GMT -6
witness1 I read something this morning that made me think of you and this post you initiated. I’m not sure you’ve had time to follow up on this study, but I want to encourage you with something. Expand your thinking. It would be pretty easy to rubber stamp the RCC as the whore. Heretical teachings, practices and abominable atrocities committed over the past centuries make her a prime candidate. But, is there more to this story? I don’t want to send you down a rabbit trail, but I think you can come to a better overall conclusion in identifying the whore if you’ll ponder/answer some of the following questions: What is Calvinism? What is New Calvinism? What is Arminianism? What is Dominionism? What is the New Apostolic Reformation? What is Reformed Theology? What is Lordship Salvation? How do these “isms” differ from Biblical Theology? (A direct understanding of scripture from individual bible study guided by the Holy Spirit rather than a systematic theology passed down through the churches). How can pre-conceived notions of “truth” we’ve learned in the past color our study of the bible? Who was Augustine? What is Gnosticism (today this is called “New Age”)? Did the Reformation “fix” Christianity completely? i.e. did it restore to us the understanding held by John, Peter, Paul, James, et al? What is Post-millennialism? A-millennialism? Are they related to Dominionism? How do they differ from Pre-millennialism? Was the early church (pre-Augustine) Pre-millennial or Post-millennial? What is the Emergent Church? What is Ecuminism? What “end-times” doctrine is taught by most of the mainline Protestant churches? Should the prophetic scriptures (or scripture as a whole) be understood as mostly literal or mostly allegorical?
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Apr 30, 2018 8:27:12 GMT -6
first of all, great list of questions. There certainly have been and are thousands and thousands of various sects of Christiandom..and to what purpose? Why so many? are not they all "speaking and teaching truths?" Who is right? Is mystery babylon this man-made monstrosity of Religion? Here's your bible, but you can not understand it unless we tell you what it means...
Having checked into the writings of Origen, he seemed pretty enlightened or inspired by the Holy Spirit. And he was within a generation of the apostles. Yet a few hundred years later the churches tossed out his writings as heresy. Really. I am paraphrasing the story, but that is what I got out of it. He very much demonstrated some amazing Spiritual aspects of Jesus laced throughout the entire OT. Which is why I quoted your last question.
Are we not made of body soul and SPIRIT? Is not our only way to Hear God currently, is through the Holy Spirit? Why is it that so many criticize when someone applies a spiritual aspect to prophecy? and likewise, there is literal aspects for a reason. We still are of our naked flesh, and cursed by that. (Rev 22:3No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.)
Literal interpretation is necessary. but I ask, what is the Spirit of God trying to say about a matter? Is not the bible the Inspired Word (breath, sword, many waters, flame of refining fire)?
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Post by kjs on Apr 30, 2018 13:32:28 GMT -6
Please note I am NOT condemning this website! I have only read through SOME of IT and it does make some sense and has some plausible points .... but I will need to go in much deeper to actually study it..... That being said I do see some statements that just do not "sit right" with me .... not saying I am correct and this website is incorrect; simply point out some at least cautionary notes...... For example one portion says ....
"The sad part is that most Christians don’t even know who the antichrist of Scripture is, and they have no clue that most of Revelation has been fulfilled during the last 1,900 years. And that is because they are believing the deceptions which originated from the Jesuits of Rome."If that is not clear enough .... basically this website (listed above) believes Revelation Prophecy has ALREADY been played out..... Since most here (at this unsealed website) believe Revelation is a yet to come prophecy ... the above should at least raise a warning flag. |
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Post by barb84 on Apr 30, 2018 20:09:06 GMT -6
I lean toward the Roman system being mystery Babylon, but read a few articles that suggest Mecca, as it is the seat of Islam. Any thoughts?
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Post by witness1 on Apr 30, 2018 20:11:27 GMT -6
Thanks for looking at this KJS. I haven't had a chance to look at these or at the link Natalie posted. I'm up to my ears in moving kids' rooms around and cleaning out closets and searching Craigslist for used furniture. Not exactly what I would prefer to be doing... I've seen about 3 minutes of each of Amir's last 5 updates... but alas it's what I must do.
Fitz, those are some good questions! And I don't think I can explain over half of the things you listed. There is so much I don't know! I see what you're getting at though, and I've had some of those same thoughts about our "man-made religion" like Barbio said. We have twisted and perverted and made a royal mess of things. But I think we need to be careful with this line of thinking though. We are God's children. We have gotten SO MUCH wrong. But how does our Heavenly Father see us? As a whore? Or as, "O ye, of little faith... do you still not understand?" Maybe it's because we've been in ministry so long that I see things differently, but I have fellow servants on all sides of the table, and we're obviously not all right. But we are all still God's children (and this isn't a Pope Francis "we're all God's children" statement... this is a, "we all believe in forgiveness of sins through the blood of Jesus and therefore are all His children" statement). I don't see our brothers and sisters, who are sincerely seeking after the Lord, as being part of "the whore".
What I DO see though, is that this isn't a black and white "the RCC is the prostitute" situation, like you said. We know there will be a one-world religion established. I think the catalyst/head of this could very well be the RCC church, but I think it will encompass Judaism, Islam, and some of the "isms" listed above. I wonder though... who is in the position to unite the world religions?
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