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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2017 13:49:55 GMT -6
rt and others,
Anna Deuteronomy lesson, I was lead to Numbers chapter 23 and 24. I saw the following verses:
Num 23:10 Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of the fourth part of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his!
Naturally, when I saw ' a fourth'.. it caught My eye. My commentary took me to the following two verses.
Then I saw 'latter days'
um 24:14 And now, behold, I go unto my people: come therefore, and I will advertise thee what this people shall do to thy people in the latter days.
Balaam's Final Oracle
Num 24:15 And he took up his parable, and said, Balaam the son of Beor hath said, and the man whose eyes are open hath said:
Num 24:16 He hath said, which heard the words of God, and knew the knowledge of the most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open:
Num 24:17 I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.
Num 24:18 And Edom shall be a possession, Seir also shall be a possession for his enemies; and Israel shall do valiantly.
Num 24:19 Out of Jacob shall come he that shall have dominion, and shall destroy him that remaineth of the city.
Num 24:15 And he took up his parable, and said, Balaam the son of Beor hath said, and the man whose eyes are open hath said:
Num 24:16 He hath said, which heard the words of God, and knew the knowledge of the most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open:
Num 24:17 I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.
Num 24:18 And Edom shall be a possession, Seir also shall be a possession for his enemies; and Israel shall do valiantly.
Num 24:19 Out of Jacob shall come he that shall have dominion, and shall destroy him that remaineth of the city.
Num 24:20 And when he looked on Amalek, he took up his parable, and said, Amalek was the first of the nations; but his latter end shall be that he perish for ever.
Num 24:21 And he looked on the Kenites, and took up his parable, and said, Strong is thy dwellingplace, and thou puttest thy nest in a rock.
Num 24:22 Nevertheless the Kenite shall be wasted, until Asshur shall carry thee away captive.
Num 24:23 And he took up his parable, and said, Alas, who shall live when God doeth this!
Num 24:24 And ships shall come from the coast of Chittim, and shall afflict Asshur, and shall afflict Eber, and he also shall perish for ever.
I found that the reference to the 'fourth', said to go to the following verse.
Psa 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.
I think that the fourth part were killed on the latter days, not the last days- lending credence that maybe the first seals HAVE been going on during the latter days(?)
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Post by watchmanjim on Jul 2, 2017 14:48:30 GMT -6
The restrainer being removed does not have to mean that the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth, or from believers on the earth. It might only mean He is no longer restraining evil of men, evil of satan, and/or the wrath of God.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2017 15:33:16 GMT -6
I take it as the restrainer stops restraining the evil party, i.e. Satan. Michael's job is to restrain. Michael has been working, somewhere in the second heaven battling demonic angels who are trying to intercept our prayers.
As in,
1) satan, defacto, is before the throne , day and night accusing us. He waits to get us, having his dominions do his dirty work, stopping our prayers and working in our lives.
2)God raptures us up without any warning and changes our bodies out of flesh so that satan can have no more effect on us.
3) we arrive in heaven before the throne
4) satan is furious because he missed us, and begins to war
5) there is no more room for satan and his minions, and he is kicked out.
6)Michael, the restrainer is taken out of the way because there is no need for him anymore as they are all kicked to the earth.
I think that Michael is there a strainer that keeps evil at bay. But indirectly it's the church because Michael has been keeping the evil away that the Church may grow. So when it is finished growing, the rapture begins and then the restrainer is taken out of the way(between God and us).we Will be in heaven at that point and together with God!!
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Post by rt on Jul 2, 2017 17:58:56 GMT -6
(Perhaps we need to start a thread about the restrainer)
I believe that what restrains lawlessness is the law. Right now the "law" is written on the hearts of believers who are in Christ. This is made possible by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Christians today act as a restraint against evil because the "law of righteousness" is written on our hearts.
Jesus said He would send the Helper (Holy Spirit) to us- believers, we know that He indwells us. It is through us that the world is convicted of sin, righteousness and judgment.
When we, the light of the world are removed, the darkness moves in to take our place. There is nothing to convict the world at that moment. That doesn't mean that the holy Spirit cannot continue to work, it just means that the convicting force will be greatly diminished. The 144,000 will be sealed (with the Holy Spirit IMO) and they will then serve as that restraining force. I believe they will be instrumental in leading the tribulation saints to the truth. But the man of lawlessness will not stand for a growing force of opposition and will move to eliminate them. I believe that during the millennium, the law will restrain lawlessness primarily through the nation of Israel again, when as scripture tells us, the law will be written upon their hearts as well. (Though at that time Satan will be bound and Christ will reign which will certainly make restraint much easier for the nation of Israel.)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2017 18:12:40 GMT -6
Yes, I see that on the earth.
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Post by whatif on Jul 2, 2017 19:56:26 GMT -6
I take it as the restrainer stops restraining the evil party, i.e. Satan. Michael's job is to restrain. Michael has been working, somewhere in the second heaven battling demonic angels who are trying to intercept our prayers. Yes, truthseeker! I've wondered for a long time if Michael is part of the "restraining," even though I also do believe that the Holy Spirit's work in the lives of Christians is also restraining evil. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2017 20:48:44 GMT -6
Rt-
I hope you know me enough.... I mulling around that 'we convict the world'. So would you say that if there were two people, a believer and non - believer, that if the believer doesn't say a word, we can still convict the unbeliever? I'm saying, do our actions/words convict or does the indwelling/law in our hearts convict? I know that that's kind of a scalpel wielding question but I'm wondering? ...Manism... "silence is golden?'
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 6:40:18 GMT -6
We don't convict... It's the Holy Spirit. Our actions and words are used by him to convict people. The Holy Spirit can even convict on His own. I read about a woman who, after seeing the Passion of the Chrost, was lead to Christ by the Holy Spirit's power. He is incredibly powerful.
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Post by rt on Jul 3, 2017 6:59:42 GMT -6
Rt- I hope you know me enough.... I mulling around that 'we convict the world'. So would you say that if there were two people, a believer and non - believer, that if the believer doesn't say a word, we can still convict the unbeliever? I'm saying, do our actions/words convict or does the indwelling/law in our hearts convict? I know that that's kind of a scalpel wielding question but I'm wondering? ...Manism... "silence is golden?' Well yes. I have first hand proof of this. For instance when I am with my unsaved family members, who normally swear and cuss profusely, they refrain from doing so, they also like to get drunk, but around me they don't. I do not have to say a word. My oldest brother has always believed that I was judgmental about his lifestyle. Even though I never said a word to him about it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 7:18:12 GMT -6
Thank y'all. I have a friend who has always proclaimed that she just enters a room and everyone is convicted by her and opposed to her in a group. I'm going to copy and paste these to her and give her comfort.😊
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Post by watchmanjim on Jul 3, 2017 7:28:59 GMT -6
We don't convict... It's the Holy Spirit. Our actions and words are used by him to convict people. The Holy Spirit can even convict on His own. Yes, that is exactly right.  |
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Post by rt on Jul 3, 2017 18:50:42 GMT -6
We don't convict... It's the Holy Spirit. Our actions and words are used by him to convict people. The Holy Spirit can even convict on His own. I read about a woman who, after seeing the Passion of the Chrost, was lead to Christ by the Holy Spirit's power. He is incredibly powerful. I agree the Holy Spirit has the power to convict, as does the word of God. But we serve as the temple of the Holy Spirit and are the primary means of spreading the word of God. The Holy Spirit IN US, has the power to convict the world of sin. That doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit can not act in His own rite, like those cases of Muslims having dreams about Jesus. But believers are the primary means today. This is how we act as a restraining force against lawlessness. My point is that the law is the antithesis of lawlessness, the light is the antithesis of darkness, the truth is the antithesis of deception, righteousness is the antithesis of sinfulness. We have the power of the Holy Spirit in us, and I think we as Christians undervalue what that really means, we have the MIND OF CHRIST. Jesus said that if we have faith like a mustard seed we can move mountains. There is power available to us through our relationship with Christ, because He gave us His Holy Spirit to dwell in us. We rip down strongholds, we wage war against powers and principalities, against the forces of wickedness, those same forces that are at work in the sons of disobedience. We do this, by wielding the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God. So yes I do believe that we as believers, can and do convict the world of sin. We act as the restraining force because we are the BODY of Christ. We have His Spirit, His mind, His word, His light that exposes deeds done in the darkness. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 18:58:46 GMT -6
Very well said rt,😌
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Post by rt on Jul 3, 2017 19:03:14 GMT -6
Rt- I hope you know me enough.... I mulling around that 'we convict the world'. So would you say that if there were two people, a believer and non - believer, that if the believer doesn't say a word, we can still convict the unbeliever? I'm saying, do our actions/words convict or does the indwelling/law in our hearts convict? I know that that's kind of a scalpel wielding question but I'm wondering? ...Manism... "silence is golden?' Well yes. I have first hand proof of this. For instance when I am with my unsaved family members, who normally swear and cuss profusely, they refrain from doing so, they also like to get drunk, but around me they don't. I do not have to say a word. My oldest brother has always believed that I was judgmental about his lifestyle. Even though I never said a word to him about it. Just wanted to say a bit more about this idea. I am not saying that we apart from the Holy Spirit convict anyone. It is us and the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit uses us, he uses our actions/words when we are yielding to Him and I believe that He uses our very presence as well, our testimony and the way we live. I do believe and have experienced for myself that when unbelievers know that you are a believer, they behave differently, they are under conviction, even if you don't say anything to them. I recall reading an article many years ago, I wish I would have copied it, but it was about Bethlehem, the story told about how many of the Christians fearing for their safety had moved out of the area. The local people were complaining how bad things had gotten since they left, more violence, and far more crime since the Christians left. They didn't have to say anything, their presence kept the city safer, why do you think that is? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 19:18:06 GMT -6
I would agree. It's the same thing in an area where there lots of churches. It's a better place than when there are not. I did copy and paste our conversation and sent it to my friend and it comforted her greatly. She feels like no one likes her but she is deeply rooted in the Bible. But everyone always feels as if she's judging them, just like you said.
I know God has this. I just know it's going to be a transitional event from top to bottom of the heavens! So much around us is going to implode. My heart is heavy with all the people who put so much faith in their belongings and their traditions. The Bible says despise not prophesyings, and you can tell some have no interest at all.
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