Thank you, bondservant. It seems to me that he has a nice balance. I tend to think that if a person has Jesus as their Savior, then He will start convicting them of things because He is Lord. He'll probably work on them a bit at a time (based on personal experience). Like your pastor said, we can't judge because we don't know where that person is at (my paraphrase). We can have Him as Savior, but I think to really experience life to the full then we must see Him as Lord.
If I understand the Lordship Salvation thing, you aren't truly saved until you make Him your Lord. But, I see it more like this video and the one Mike shared. We can be saved because that's what Jesus does. I think your pastor is more clear though that once we are saved, in order to be in relationship with Him then we must understand that He is Lord. He will convict, and discipline, and train us. We could just go on sinning and live however we want, but that's not what He wants for us.
It fits in with the sermon Mike posted on wandering. You can be saved and not be in relationship, but what kind of abundant life is that?
Is 26:3 You keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on You, because he trusts in You.
I think it was Jack Kelley who made a good distinction between fellowship and relationship. Fellowship is like companionship, but relationship is simply how one relates.
I could have a prodigal son who wanders off and we no longer have a fellowship, but we still have a relationship—he's forever related to me by blood, he's my son. He'll always be my son.
Parents Children Coworkers Friends Masters Slaves Servants Employers Rulers
These are all different types of relations a person might have, and regardless of how close they might be, they remain in that relationship by virtue of the relationship itself.
Same thing with salvation. If someone has genuine faith that Christ died for their sins and rose again, than the very second they believed the Holy Spirit resuscitated their spirit and adopted them into the family of God. They are now sealed forever. But sin can very quickly dissolve the fellowship, hence 1 Cor. 3, among other passages, describing some who will be saved by the bare minimum (faith).
"For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures."
fitz: even though he was just doing his job...which is not to be a shining example of a Christian CEO in the business world, though that's a noble pursuit, his main focus should be making money for his bosses.
Dec 5, 2019 14:59:10 GMT -6
fitz: Else he's a bad employee...which isn't very Christlike either.
Dec 5, 2019 15:00:12 GMT -6
EnochWalked: fitz: I think if a CEO owns a corporation, he can pay himself whatever salary he wants from the company's money, and then anonymously donate that. I suppose that move wouldn't be very popular with the employees, or make the company very competitive.
Dec 5, 2019 15:41:33 GMT -6
sesquipedalian: It really is disappointing to see two Christians trying to justify abandoning moral principles for the sake of profits and worldly favor. Never mind the fact that Chick-Fil-A already had sizeable profits and tremendous loyalty from their customers.
Dec 5, 2019 17:17:51 GMT -6
mike: Weighing in again, I'm disappointed. In this world there aren't too many righteous stories to be "proud" of. This was but is no more. That's the part that caused my reaction. If I boycott them I have to boycott everything
Dec 5, 2019 21:41:56 GMT -6
Bora: They had it and then they were brow-beat and lost it. To bad they caved as they had my admiration but now no. They are simply the strong that backed down in the heat of battle.
Dec 6, 2019 8:12:51 GMT -6
Joecool: Since God was always all-knowing, that means He not only knew us but He was thinking about us before the foundations of the world
Dec 6, 2019 10:17:13 GMT -6
Joecool: No sense in worrying about the battles since God is Always with us.
Dec 6, 2019 10:17:59 GMT -6
EnochWalked: sesquip: I don't think I was trying to justify "abandoning moral principles" and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I was just trying to show empathy for Christian company owners who choose to avoid controversy in order to keep their business operating.
Dec 6, 2019 16:15:01 GMT -6
EnochWalked: If the owner of Chick-fil-A had been motivated only by personal greed, or avoiding personal embarrassment in the eyes of the secular world (as your first link suggests, without evidence) then I would not justify that, but I don't know his heart (God does).
Dec 6, 2019 16:18:28 GMT -6
EnochWalked: The company is still giving to charities concerned with "education, hunger, and homelessness.", which still seems moral to me, and I wouldn't feel comfortable condemning them for that. ("He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone" Jn 8:7)
Dec 6, 2019 16:23:37 GMT -6
reepicheep: Who cares about the HoR? What matters is the promise of God. Sad anyway, that the US is putting themselves under the curse.
Dec 7, 2019 11:44:34 GMT -6
EnochWalked: bernie: Thanks for the link. This is an interesting time of year. On December 6, 2017, Trump announced US recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital, and December 9, 1949 was when the UN passed resolution 303 stating Jerusalem doesn't belong to Israel.
Dec 7, 2019 18:15:46 GMT -6