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Post by fitz on May 23, 2019 4:37:45 GMT -6
kjs , raindrop , boraddict , Natan's description of Messiah Jesus included his perception that Messiah repented. And, that ever since He repented, He has not committed even one transgression. In other words, Messiah is sinless. As for the "repent" part - I see this as our Lord's baptism where the Holy Spirit descended upon Him as a dove. That is when His ministry began. What Natan perceived as Messiah repenting was, in fact, the moment that the Holy Spirit came upon our Lord Jesus. Matthew 3:16-17 says "As soon as Jesus was baptised, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased!" I can see it, Raindrop. That's a very astute analysis. From the perspective of a Jewish kid, that's how you'd see it. Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3 Matthew 3:14-15 www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-baptized.html
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Post by stormyknight on May 23, 2019 5:58:27 GMT -6
heh! tough as wet tissue paper.
raindrop, my apprehension over confrontation is when someone gets close to the line and is warned, or worse, when someone steps over and has to be reprimanded. The Day of Wrath is going to be a tough one for me. There are so many people that don't have a clue. They do, but they ignore it.
no, I'm with you about Natan. I believe he was shown the near future for Israel's sake. Maybe some of the things he told about don't jive with the timelines that we all have studied and discussed at length, but then God the Father does things in His own time. We are still looking through the dark glass.
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Post by kjs on May 24, 2019 8:18:31 GMT -6
heh! tough as wet tissue paper.
raindrop , my apprehension over confrontation is when someone gets close to the line and is warned, or worse, when someone steps over and has to be reprimanded. The Day of Wrath is going to be a tough one for me. There are so many people that don't have a clue. They do, but they ignore it.
no, I'm with you about Natan. I believe he was shown the near future for Israel's sake. Maybe some of the things he told about don't jive with the timelines that we all have studied and discussed at length, but then God the Father does things in His own time. We are still looking through the dark glass.
As I stated before, I do think Natan did have his experience and was shown many things.... It could be as raindrop believes that his cultural beliefs "colored" his interpretation of what he "saw". It is also very possible (like I still believe) -- Rabbi's who first heard his story -- pushed and prodded their own beliefs into the story line.
One thing we did not cover (or at least I have not seen it so far) -- is that all the "scenes" he reported seeing -- he apparently placed them into a chronological order of his own making.
Least take an example -- You and a couple loved ones are driving on down the highway in a vehicle.... when suddenly, several of the vehicles in front of your vehicle start swerving and dodging as you suddenly see a semi-truck tumbling over and over headed straight for you vehicle. Your able to get out of the way and everyone in your vehicle is ok.... but you are forced to stay at this major accident -- to describe what you witnessed.
As the officials arrive to take your reports; you start hearing stories that do not match what you recall, and the timing of different events seem is off as well.
The point is unless you have perfect recall (and most of us do not) -- your version and timing of events is going to be off from everyone else's version.
So Items like when the Mt. of Olives splits and how Jesus detects "holiness" -- is just a fifteen year old recall of events.....
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Post by boraddict on May 24, 2019 9:02:48 GMT -6
It comes down to a fair and reasonable assessment. Is it reasonable that the Jewish rabbis would twist anything to fit their belief? Yes!
I guess the same could be said for any group of religious leaders and the ones I love to harp on are the LDS. So after Joseph Smith was killed in 1844ish, that group split into seven factions that today number into the hundreds; and the largest of these, of the original seven, is the LDS church. Would the LDS allow one of it's members to recount a vision that did not place them, the LDS, as the central authority in God's plan of salvation? The answer is NO!
Likewise, this boy's vision has been altered by those in authority over him. Taking that as well as his own life experience associations to explain what he has seen, then nothing of the vision is credible. There are however parts that could be viewed as project material for exploration. It's like any other near death story that is taken with skepticism.
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Post by raindrop on May 24, 2019 11:30:10 GMT -6
fitz, stormyknight, kjs, boraddict, Fitz - wonderful catch there. That link described everything I think Natan was trying to convey - with his limited descriptive powers and the limits he has as a lad still governed by the original Covenant. Intricate details of the true Messiah Jesus are not revealed to the Jewish people. Partial blindness means partial blindness. And - all for the sake of the world - for the sake of the Gentiles. It's like part punishment / part; it HAD to happen in order to bring in the Gentiles. It's so difficult to wade through. It's almost like Almighty God had to put the Jewish people to one side in order to deal with the Gentiles. At the same time - the Jewish people deserved this separation from God because they did not recognise their Messiah the first time. A heavenly synchronicity, if you will. What is obvious is that Almighty God began the story with the Jewish people and will end the entire story with the Jewish people. I have watched the Natan video clip over countable times. I have watched the body language and listened to every word. In this world of utter media deception - evil men waxing worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived, I prefer to think that Almighty God would not allow a message of this importance to be a false one. Forgetting about the prophecies for a second - the overall message that Natan was moved to convey was for the Jewish people to repent, repent, repent. As they are all still under the law of the original Covenant - the message was full of details of how to please God. Don't talk in synagogue - wash your hands - wear tzitzit - the laws of modesty - acts of kindness .. Oy Vey! I get tired just listing a few of them. These are all instructions to people who don't have the luxury of the Holy Spirit. The message Natan brought back was for Israel. War is coming. No doubt. What is very scary is the fact that the USA is governed by Gog. Natan said the Obama is Gog - which is why I have been watching and waiting for Obama to lurch back into view. As he hasn't, as yet, I was horrified when I saw the armada that Pres. Trump has sent over to the region a la Gog in Ezekiel 38. I have been a massive, massive Trump fan from the beginning. He is a wonderful breathe of fresh air. But then I read the Bush Scroll and realised that old sages in Israel have always identified the leader of the USA as Gog. Back in 2008, the Sanhedrin (don't groan - bear with me) and Temple Institute compiled a formal scroll, addressing GW Bush as "Chief Prince of Mechech and Tubal. King of the West". The scroll lays out the title deeds to the land of Israel - from the Bible. I shall link it below. It is a fascinating read. Short and informative. Our Father God is a loving, just God. We can nit pick over what we perceive as not quite right, or we can pray for discernment and then take note of the prophetic implications for the world. I pray very hard that Pres. Trump is not Gog. It is a horrible thing to think. Especially after all the hope that he has brought to the Christian and Jewish world. I have an American chum who is so horrified at my thoughts that she thinks I'm certifiable.
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Post by raindrop on May 24, 2019 11:40:04 GMT -6
fitz, stormyknight, kjs, boraddict, Believe me - I don't want to think these things. However, a huge armada has made it's way to the ME region. A "peace plan" is being pushed. A true Bible believing Christian knows that Almighty God has instructed Israel to trust in Him and Him alone. He has told Israel, umpteen times, not to make pacts etc. Israel has disobeyed and this peace plan can bring no good. The only leader involved with Israel in these terrifying end times, is President Trump. And the "Deal of the Century". Israel trusts him completely. May Almighty God forgive me if I;m wrong. I hope I am. Below is the link to the Bush Scroll. proving that it's not the man (Obama) but the leader of the country that Gog rules. www.templeinstitute.org/megillat-bush.htm
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Post by Natalie on May 24, 2019 16:51:38 GMT -6
The problem I see with the leader of the US being Gog is that when reading Ez 38 those in alliance with Gog are our present enemies...Persia being the easiest to identify. Nobody questions that this is Iran.
So, the US has been drawn to the ME, but I don't see them suddenly joining forces with Iran to invade anybody.
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Post by raindrop on May 24, 2019 23:17:11 GMT -6
Natalie, I know, Natalie. It's bizarre. According to Natan, "they will all be fighting each other, at first" (World war 3) "but will then unite and attack Israel*. It sounds absolutely bonkers.
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Post by raindrop on May 26, 2019 2:53:23 GMT -6
fitz, stormyknight, kjs, boraddict, Natalie, Morning Al - I'd lie to add one more thought to this subject. Natan was taken up to heaven to receive a message for the Jewish people on the last day of the last blood moon in the tetrad. September 28th, 2015. The Sukkot (Tabernacles) period of that year. As of today - May 26th, 2019 - it is now 1,336 days or 3 years, 7 months and 28 days since then. Almighty God has not enabled a Jewish prophet for a very long time - until He sent Natan, for our time. This tells me that Almighty God began turning His attention back to Israel. As this is so - it stands to Biblical reason that the true church is soon to be removed. It's about to be become ALL about Israel and the end times. The niggle I have is the 21 day delay in Daniel. This points to a delay for our time. Which is why it didn't all blow up on Israel's 70th birthday in 2018. Try as I might - I can't work out the meaning of that 21 day delay.
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Post by raindrop on May 26, 2019 2:55:13 GMT -6
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Post by boraddict on May 26, 2019 10:30:09 GMT -6
fitz , stormyknight , kjs , boraddict , Natalie , Morning Al - I'd lie to add one more thought to this subject. Natan was taken up to heaven to receive a message for the Jewish people on the last day of the last blood moon in the tetrad. September 28th, 2015. The Sukkot (Tabernacles) period of that year. As of today - May 26th, 2019 - it is now 1,336 days or 3 years, 7 months and 28 days since then. Almighty God has not enabled a Jewish prophet for a very long time - until He sent Natan, for our time. This tells me that Almighty God began turning His attention back to Israel. As this is so - it stands to Biblical reason that the true church is soon to be removed. It's about to be become ALL about Israel and the end times. The niggle I have is the 21 day delay in Daniel. This points to a delay for our time. Which is why it didn't all blow up on Israel's 70th birthday in 2018. Try as I might - I can't work out the meaning of that 21 day delay. Natan as a prophet of God is incorrect because all prophets of God both in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament espouse that Jesus is the Christ. 1) This is evidenced in Luke 24:27 that "all the prophets" of the OT wrote "things concerning" Jesus, and this sealed testimony in the OT is now open for all to see that Jesus is indeed the Christ. 2) This is evidenced by the prophets of the NT that Jesus is the Christ. Therefore, the sealed testimony of the OT is now open, and together with the open testimony of the NT as well as the testimony of millions of Saints is that Jesus is the Christ. Since Natan does not testify openly that Jesus is the Christ then he is not a Jewish prophet of God. OR Since Natan does not testify openly that Jesus is the Christ then he is a false prophet. Therefore, it is my opinion that Natan is not a Jewish prophet; however, if he is a Jewish prophet then he is a false prophet. Further, if God so chooses to have prophets on the earth today then they will have a testimony of Jesus Christ and will testify openly about Jesus. It seems that Natan had a visionary experience that was intended for himself and not to be taken as a revelation from God via a prophet of God. Post Script: The Sukkot reference is good because Christ was born during this time in 3 BC; although, Vinge may say 2 BC.
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Post by raindrop on May 26, 2019 10:59:29 GMT -6
boraddict, Your summation as a Bible believing Christian is undeniable. Your words speak truth. The blessed, beautiful truth. However..... If you are speaking to a people who have refused that truth - and are partially blinded to that truth - you are going to attempt to speak their language. Never, ever forget that Almighty God's Covenant with the nation of Israel, will stand for all eternity. Regardless. We Christians are so very blessed to have received the Holy Spirit and can see the truth. As could the first Christians - who were all Jewish! We can afford to be.. and feel superior because we have received the truth via the Holy Spirit. It took us flipping YONKS to break free of the lies of the RC church. Our ancestors were either blinded completely by this despicable man-made religion or they were slaughtered because they rejected it. Years and years of persecution followed. We were not always in the light of truth. It has taken us centuries to reach this point. Our ancestors were not able to receive the light of scripture because of the shenanigans of the RC church. With the blessings (and curses)of the internet, we are all able to research and discern for ourselves now. Or not. The knowledge is free to all of us. If we bother to look. The same goes for the partially blinded nation of Israel. If they bother to look. If they care enough to research. If they truly want the truth. Your summation quoted people who were believers. Who had the light of truth. Natan's message was to a nation of blinded unbelievers, who are still incredibly precious to Almighty God. Otherwise - why would He bother?
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Post by raindrop on May 26, 2019 11:29:50 GMT -6
boraddict, I love love love that scripture about seed planting. We can plant the seed of truth about Messiah Jesus We can even water it..... but it is up to Almighty God if that seed grows. That part of evangelism is beyond our pay grade. We don't have the band-width to take it any further. The "growing" is up to Almighty God. He sent Natan to the Jewish people as a warning. The seed was planted. War is coming.
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