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Post by Natalie on May 8, 2019 21:10:07 GMT -6
Ever see a mudslide or avalanche?
That's what I picture.
ETA Like this:
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2019 22:43:29 GMT -6
I believe we'll know it when we see it as believers....
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2019 23:25:08 GMT -6
Personally, I believe it will take the form of a personal identifier, which can be scanned at the market, using technology of today.....Implant? maybe.....laser qr reader? maybe.... who knows? not me....
Whatever it is, believers cannot buy or sell in the regular market, we may be bartering
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Post by fitz on May 9, 2019 5:11:55 GMT -6
Yep, the buy/sell thing makes me think it has to be a physical thing. Scannable!
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Post by rodeck2 on May 9, 2019 6:52:11 GMT -6
today mainstream is talking about Chrislam , so i think the subject is close , they are all same people , Satan servants .including those false prophets calling themselves as Christians , Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron ( 1Ti 4:2 ) .
please focus your energy on your standing as new born on Jesus Christ in godliness
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Post by venge on May 9, 2019 8:22:52 GMT -6
I think we can agree that the mark is on the forehead or the right hand. I had said such. As you said: Granted we so not know what the "MARK" looks like and again Now granted this is open to interpretation
I agree and again say that it does not have to be a physical mark. We don't have agree and we wont. But I say this to you, if you limit yourself to that only interpretation and it is not that...you will never see it. Ok. if I be missing some please spell it out for me....
The text says -- Cause all to receive a MARK ... sounds like it is visible to me (what ever the mark may be) it is seen because it locates the position on the body.
Next -- it has to be visible to others to control the buying / selling -- that part I agree could be a computer chip --- but it still has to MARK them in some way for it to be "read" -- which may not be visible to eye sight -- but visible to scanner........
kjs, Scripture shows we are sealed in our hearts and in our heads. And our hands as well. Why else would scripture say: Is this literal or spiritual to you? And if you agree with me that it is spiritual, why the right hand? Because if a true Christian is marked in their foreheads and in their right hand....yet their right hand turns from God and does wickedness....why does Christ say remove it. It is the children of the dark that their right hand offends and they are marked by dark, not the light. Barnes says in his commentary: And doing these things, we are living a Holy lifestyle towards God. Not doing them, we are not marked by God but by Belial. Things contrary to God's commands. That is why in Deut 11:13, God said: He follows this verse leading to Deut 11:18-19 Did they bind them as a sign on their hand by a tattoo? Disfiguring themselves? Or was this spiritual? Are we not those that: Now, let us take Nigeria for an example. If in the future Christians are almost extinct there, and Islam rules Nigeria. They implement shariah law...is it possible that true believers because of their faith could be bared from buying and selling? Could a regime in the world do this? Of course so. It would force Christians to renounce their faith to life in the world. In Nebuchadnezzar's time, wouldn't this be possible? Yet a future one will come. Will not a statue be made that all who do not bow before it will be killed in like manner? Yet you dont think that Christians will be expelled from buying and selling because of their faith? We do not know what money will be, which countries this will effect, how buying and selling will work at that time. But this is for sure, we wrestle against wicked spirits. And the future time is a time when we definetly do that. We don't wrestle against micro chips. We wrestle against spiritual battles like lust, greed, envy, covet...those things are what will change us giving into our flesh. Not a piece of metal.
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Post by venge on May 9, 2019 8:26:43 GMT -6
Venge - random thought on the mark being invisible The mark is identified as 666, an unholy triune alliance maybe. Like "man, man, man" instead of Father, Son, Holy Spirit. I see this mindset of me, me, me everywhere, all day, everyday Mike, I think you know where I stand on this. I don't subscribe to an "unholy trinity". It is my own opinion, based upon scripture, that the man of sin is the false prophet. There is only Satan and the False Prophet. Just as every single head of the beast had 1 ruler, 1 kingdom and each was part of the dragon.
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Post by mike on May 9, 2019 13:31:48 GMT -6
venge - I didn't communicate my random thought very well. I didn't mean it in the context that you were thinking. By "unholy trinity" I meant on the individual level. For example the "mark" (if not physically visible) would be something that points back to self. Like me, me, me which is what we see more and more of day by day. It is the mantra of the luciferians "do as though will". "It's all about me". Make more sense? If not I'm ok with dropping the idea until I can figure out how to say it better
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Post by venge on May 9, 2019 17:17:00 GMT -6
venge - I didn't communicate my random thought very well. I didn't mean it in the context that you were thinking. By "unholy trinity" I meant on the individual level. For example the "mark" (if not physically visible) would be something that points back to self. Like me, me, me which is what we see more and more of day by day. It is the mantra of the luciferians "do as though will". "It's all about me". Make more sense? If not I'm ok with dropping the idea until I can figure out how to say it better I read it as such: I take the mark as those that make a conscious choice. God or self. Preservation of others or preservation of self. Being a servant or being the master I look at it like Christ did fruit. There is good fruit and bad fruit, good trees and bad trees. He says the trees that bring forth no fruit will be hewn down. So there is a relation between taking a mark and baring no fruit. Taking God's mark and baring fruit. There is a difference of being a dry tree and a green tree. If Daniel or his friends would have bowed down to the image Nebuchadnezzar set up, he would have had the mark right? Were they branding people back then that were loyal? Rev 14:9 says: So mere worship which does not require you to pray or bow down to worship...this is wrong. It is an idol. Daniel did not worship the image, Daniel did not worship in Babylonian rule, Daniel did not do anything against God and he did not seek to do wickedness. He could have taken advantage of the system he was in and did well for himself but he stayed true to God. He did not value the meat he was given off the kings table. The wine, the indulging. That is why I take note in Matthew 24:48-51 That is a mark of the right hand, that is a mark of the beast. It is not the mark of God. Do not think eating and drinking with the drunken is literal. Eating meat from other idols. Taking wisdom from other idols...heresies that condemn the soul.
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Post by venge on May 10, 2019 13:12:34 GMT -6
If there was a mark today, I’d look at China’s social system. It looks like a beast.
1. Counterfeit Christianity- changing doctrine 2. Teaching that Chinese culture is true over Christianity 3. Those that are true Christians are enemies of China. They are put in jail. 4. Chinese seminar titled “Christianity is enormous harm on China security “ 5. China pays people to turn in Christians 6. Xinhua News Agency quoted Xu saying “a typical phrase is 1 more Christian, 1 less Chinese”. 7. China trying to make Christian religion more Chinese by rewriting N.T. W/Buddhist and Confucian teachings 8. China use new social system which can prevent Christians from travel, buying a house, buying tickets, selling property, because the state lowers their credit score because their religion is against state ideas. 9. Worship of things to enjoy life over God is this credit system. It puts our wants on top. 20. The credit score is connected to a citizens ID card #
Want more?
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Post by mike on May 10, 2019 13:59:42 GMT -6
If there was a mark today, I’d look at China’s social system. It looks like a beast. 1. Counterfeit Christianity- changing doctrine 2. Teaching that Chinese culture is true over Christianity 3. Those that are true Christians are enemies of China. They are put in jail. 4. Chinese seminar titled “Christianity is enormous harm on China security “ 5. China pays people to turn in Christians 6. Xinhua News Agency quoted Xu saying “a typical phrase is 1 more Christian, 1 less Chinese”. 7. China trying to make Christian religion more Chinese by rewriting N.T. W/Buddhist and Confucian teachings 8. China use new social system which can prevent Christians from travel, buying a house, buying tickets, selling property, because the state lowers their credit score because their religion is against state ideas. 9. Worship of things to enjoy life over God is this credit system. It puts our wants on top. 20. The credit score is connected to a citizens ID card # Want more? Just picking at old Venges brain a little here. At least whats left of it How are you sleeping and having time to share thoughts with us man, wow? babys good too? So if I follow your prior posts on the subject with the 'mark' not necessarily being a required to be a visible thing, would you say that its possible to be visible and spiritual at the same time? The top 10 you listed are significantly spiritual (and troubling, but expected as the day draws nearer), but some of that could be physical too, no? Just trying to sort through what you posed and what we've all been taught for years and years that the mark would HAVE TO be a computer chip of sorts. With the tech we have in place today its not beyond doubt that a mark could have some physical application in addition to spiritual. Like #8, in order to track all that the 'system' of tech would have do that via information in databases, etc. Hope youre awake enough to follow my random thoughts on this. Sometimes I just have two minutes to write this stuff and it doesnt always come out the way it is in my head - YIKES!
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Post by venge on May 10, 2019 14:25:31 GMT -6
If there was a mark today, I’d look at China’s social system. It looks like a beast. 1. Counterfeit Christianity- changing doctrine 2. Teaching that Chinese culture is true over Christianity 3. Those that are true Christians are enemies of China. They are put in jail. 4. Chinese seminar titled “Christianity is enormous harm on China security “ 5. China pays people to turn in Christians 6. Xinhua News Agency quoted Xu saying “a typical phrase is 1 more Christian, 1 less Chinese”. 7. China trying to make Christian religion more Chinese by rewriting N.T. W/Buddhist and Confucian teachings 8. China use new social system which can prevent Christians from travel, buying a house, buying tickets, selling property, because the state lowers their credit score because their religion is against state ideas. 9. Worship of things to enjoy life over God is this credit system. It puts our wants on top. 20. The credit score is connected to a citizens ID card # Want more? Just picking at old Venges brain a little here. At least whats left of it How are you sleeping and having time to share thoughts with us man, wow? babys good too? So if I follow your prior posts on the subject with the 'mark' not necessarily being a required to be a visible thing, would you say that its possible to be visible and spiritual at the same time? The top 10 you listed are significantly spiritual (and troubling, but expected as the day draws nearer), but some of that could be physical too, no? Just trying to sort through what you posed and what we've all been taught for years and years that the mark would HAVE TO be a computer chip of sorts. With the tech we have in place today its not beyond doubt that a mark could have some physical application in addition to spiritual. Like #8, in order to track all that the 'system' of tech would have do that via information in databases, etc. Hope youre awake enough to follow my random thoughts on this. Sometimes I just have two minutes to write this stuff and it doesnt always come out the way it is in my head - YIKES! Mike I’m sucking down A&W root beer atm for my sugar fix. Yeah, I’m tired. Kids are killing me and my daughter visited the principal yesterday cause she was bad. I’m at work so I’m replying to quick stuff that doesn’t require me to sift through biblical scripture to post. Can the mark be physical? Of course it could be. I don’t know the future so I have to concede and say yes. Do I feel it is, No. I was taught the microchip too and the bar code lol. Why do people look for things that they need to see with their eyes? Can’t we see it with knowing right from wrong? We should be able to as Christians. All the sins come from the heart. Christ taught that. I look at the heart, the fruit of man. I’m not looking at the creation, I’m looking at the created that wishes to be the creator! When I studied the mark, I came across it as a numerous assemblage of mankind. Something people love so much, it becomes their idol. It’s like Lot’s wife looking back at the city and missing it. Her heart was in that wicked place. Was she marked? We’re the sodomites marked? We’re the Assyrians marked? Egyptians? Each desolator was crushed by God. Each was guilty of wickedness seen in Mystery Babylon. As I pointed out, if China can say you are a Christian and you are not authorized to read the true bible. Your going to jail and the Bible is to be destroyed. Because you broke the law, you lower your social score. By that, you cannot buy tickets to planes, buses, etc, you can’t travel, you can’t buy a house, you can’t get a loan etc But....if you obey us and follow us and give up your version of faith, you can be a good citizen in China and buy and sell anything you want. It’s downright scary.
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Post by yardstick on May 10, 2019 20:20:59 GMT -6
venge , do you think the word "ON" is what causes this thought that it is visible? From YLT - 16 And it maketh all, the small, and the great, and the rich, and the poor, and the freemen, and the servants, that it may give to them a mark upon their right hand or upon their foreheads,From KJV - 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:epi: on, upon Usage: on, to, against, on the basis of, at. I think that is why some think that in a linear way. Tell me Mike, if you’re sealed with God’s mark on your forehead or right hand....can I see it? It appears that the use of the word (669 times in the Bible) can be translated as either 'in' OR 'on' amongst other meanings (to, at, by, upon, et al). But in any case it is a preposition. How are prepositions used in greek? The same way as in english? If so, then don't they answer the question of 'where' and connect things together? This is what some digging has uncovered. Please check my work! Do not take my word for it! The noun 'foreheads' is in the genitive neuter plural case in Rev 7:3. The noun ' hand' is in genitive feminine singular in Rev 13:16. The noun 'forehead' is in Accusative Neuter Singular also in Rev 13:16. The Thayer's Greek Lexicon says that when genitive, dative and accusative cases are used, Hopefully this gives a better understanding, but please DO discuss further! I may have missed something!
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Post by cwood85 on May 10, 2019 22:10:04 GMT -6
Just picking at old Venges brain a little here. At least whats left of it How are you sleeping and having time to share thoughts with us man, wow? babys good too? So if I follow your prior posts on the subject with the 'mark' not necessarily being a required to be a visible thing, would you say that its possible to be visible and spiritual at the same time? The top 10 you listed are significantly spiritual (and troubling, but expected as the day draws nearer), but some of that could be physical too, no? Just trying to sort through what you posed and what we've all been taught for years and years that the mark would HAVE TO be a computer chip of sorts. With the tech we have in place today its not beyond doubt that a mark could have some physical application in addition to spiritual. Like #8, in order to track all that the 'system' of tech would have do that via information in databases, etc. Hope youre awake enough to follow my random thoughts on this. Sometimes I just have two minutes to write this stuff and it doesnt always come out the way it is in my head - YIKES! Mike I’m sucking down A&W root beer atm for my sugar fix. Yeah, I’m tired. Kids are killing me and my daughter visited the principal yesterday cause she was bad. I’m at work so I’m replying to quick stuff that doesn’t require me to sift through biblical scripture to post. Can the mark be physical? Of course it could be. I don’t know the future so I have to concede and say yes. Do I feel it is, No. I was taught the microchip too and the bar code lol. Why do people look for things that they need to see with their eyes? Can’t we see it with knowing right from wrong? We should be able to as Christians. All the sins come from the heart. Christ taught that. I look at the heart, the fruit of man. I’m not looking at the creation, I’m looking at the created that wishes to be the creator! When I studied the mark, I came across it as a numerous assemblage of mankind. Something people love so much, it becomes their idol. It’s like Lot’s wife looking back at the city and missing it. Her heart was in that wicked place. Was she marked? We’re the sodomites marked? We’re the Assyrians marked? Egyptians? Each desolator was crushed by God. Each was guilty of wickedness seen in Mystery Babylon. As I pointed out, if China can say you are a Christian and you are not authorized to read the true bible. Your going to jail and the Bible is to be destroyed. Because you broke the law, you lower your social score. By that, you cannot buy tickets to planes, buses, etc, you can’t travel, you can’t buy a house, you can’t get a loan etc But....if you obey us and follow us and give up your version of faith, you can be a good citizen in China and buy and sell anything you want. It’s downright scary. Amen Venge on your statements in regards to the status of our hearts. To me and this isn’t directed at anyone in particular and is just a general statement, but I think the majority of the physical things are sought after and understood as far as biblical understanding goes is because noone wants to look at their heart or the hearts of mankind. No one wants to admit that basically, our pride has essentially always been the problem and manifest into many different types of wickedness and evil. In my understanding, research, prayer and looking into different teachings, we always seems to create a physical scapegoat of sorts to peg some of the uncomfortable and misunderstood parts of the Bible on instead of realizing and seeing that it is referring to man, his pride, and the evil that comes from within us. Like for instance and I am sure I am going to get some slack for this, but looking and watching for a physical temple to be built, when that may not be what is being referred to at all in regards to certain verses in the NT about the man of sin or lawlessness. Another physical only understanding by much of what we have been taught is the Antichrist being a human incarceration of Satan who is going to control the world at some point and bring hell on earth by force and control everyone. Do I believe we can be influenced by evil spirits and forces? Certainly for both believers and non believers. Do I think Satan is going to somehow posses a person for an extended point of time basically making himself godlike? Is he waiting for that one perfect leader to come to power who will do the deed just right? No, I do not think that because we humans can do that sort of damage all on our own without some super Satan possed human to lead the way. We give Satan way to much credit sometimes and it’s easier to peg the blame and evil on him than admit what we as humans are capable of on our own. I have touched on this before in another post in the past regarding how the language is being used in Thessalonians by Paul in regards to the man of sin. There is a Greek word for man as in a singular man with male reproductive parts (probably could have phrased that better, sorry on my phone and short on time lol) and then there is a neuter word that refers to man as mankind. Paul uses the neuter word and from the Hebrew language and it is the transliteration of Adam (man/mankind). However according to much of what most of us have been taught, including myself, it is assumed these verses are referencing to the Satan incarnate Antichrist and will exalt himself above God and all that is godly in the physical temple in Jerusalem. Some say he will claim to be the messiah and or Jesus. That is a lot of speculation however because nowhere in scriptures is that stated. If someone in all seriousness sat in a newly built third Jewish temple where they will blasphemously sacrifice animals so they can atone for their sins and continue to rely on and believe in their own religion and this person states they were the Messiah, only the Jews would care and it would not insult God in the way it is portrayed that it will. The physical temple is not Holy. We are the temple that Jesus raised up in three days. The Jews continue to look today for the same Messiah just as they did 2000 years ago, which is essentially a warlord. Someone claiming themselves as God, Jesus or whatever isn't anything new under the sun. But for some reason doing this act in a Jewish temple makes it the pinnacle of lawlessness? People claim to be a god or Jesus/Messiah all throughout history since Jesus walked this earth. I am pretty sure we have at around a dozen “Messiahs/Jesus” walking around today. Some of them even have very large followings, even in the thousands. So because they aren’t claiming to be god/Messiah in a Jewish temple it’s not exalting oneself over God enough in a blasphemous manner? I ask out of curiosity and clarification. The man of sin/lawlessness quite possibly isn’t going to be revealed by placing himself in a Jewish temple and calling himself God as some super appointed ruler. Our pride is the source of our sin and lawlessness, and it was there from the very beginning. Pride is was what prompted Eve and then Adam into taking a bite of the forbidden fruit. Satan essentially told them by temptation that they could be just like God if they took from the tree. To live forever like God and not die. To be as knowledgeable and wise as God. Our pride is the root of our lawlessness and the reason for the fall to sin. Our sin sits inside all of us and comes from the heart for both believers and non believers. God states he has written his law in all of our hearts. A non believer knows right from wrong. But our pride is the driving force behind our sin. Pride makes us think we can lie and get away with it, steal something that isn’t ours, take advantage of someone and get away with it, or cheat on a loved one and not get caught. When someone does these type of things we are exalting our own selfish desires, power, and greed over whoever is being hurt or sinned against. We do the same with God by disregarding his law written in our hearts and following our own desires and idols. Trying to constantly be and do good, when there is only one who is good, trying to have more or enough faith, when there is only one that faith comes from, trying to win and secure His love, when He is the source of all love. It is like a child guaranteeing and securing his parents love for him by being on his best behavior and only doing good things. But it doesn’t work that way, parents love their children before they are even born and no matter what. There is nothing a child can do more of to win their parents love. The same is true for God and it is our pride to feel like we have to win Him over and try to convince Him we believe enough to ensure or secure our salvation. To show Him we believe enough. There is a drive for us to always DO something to prove our beliefs and faith to God and that source is pride. Now for clarification, I am not saying go do whatever you want or to quit trying to be a better human being. Let the love of Jesus been seen by others through us. As far as the mark of the beasts damning people for eternity. Let’s take a look at scriptures: •2So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth, and harmful and painful sores came upon the people who bore the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.• ^^^^ Most of Revelation was seen and experienced by John while he was in the SPIRIT, not literally seeing and experiencing the Revelation of Jesus. It is a book of visions, allegory and metaphors. There isn’t a way to pick and choose what is literal and isn’t and unfortunately a whole lot of book and dvd sales have been made doing just that. The sores are representing filth and misery that comes upon someone who takes the mark of the beast. If a single mom has to feed her children whose deadbeat dad is nowhere to be found and the only way to do that is to take the mark that is controlled by the one world Antichrist ruler, what would getting literal sores do as a punishment to her? It would Make her even more unable to care for her children that’s for sure. Gods judgement is for correction, not utter destruction. The word that John used for image in the image of the beast, is the same Greek word that Jesus used to describe Caesars IMAGE on the coin that he used as an example when asked about paying taxes. The Jews asked him if they should be paying taxes and to who, and he asked them whose IMAGE was on their currency. Since they used, earned and bought with the Romans currency, Jesus told them to pay the taxes. The beast is identified by the angel to John as having the number of man (as in mankind not a singular male) and now there is an image of this beast created by mankind and people worship this image and take its mark. It’s representative of money and all the systems that are tied to it. Banks and kingdoms have turned trading and giving money into a form of slavery. Debt is slavery. If you have ever been in Financial distress you feel helpless, trapped, used and emotionally beat up. It’s painful and miserable and felt throughout your entire body and soul. Lots of people curse God for their financial situations. People worship money and material things bought with money. It destroys relationships, families, and friendships. People gamble their entire lives away at maybe someday winning some money. It causes people to act in ways that they normally wouldn’t if they didn’t worship money. People leave their families and loved ones helpless and suffering by hoarding their money and things to themselves instead of being generous and kind. Corporations and governments take advantage of people so they can get more money for themselves. What is the goal of selling drugs, trafficking children and women for sex, creating and selling porn? To make money and more and more money. Governments kill over it. People rob, murder, and plunder for it. People fill their homes to the point of literally bursting or collapsing by hoarding and obsessing over material things bought with money. Hoarding is a sickness and causes misery for all involved. A hoarder is always unsatisfied and miserable. Money causes all kinds of pain and misery that plagues those who worship it and even those affected by those who worship it like the Black Plague. The beast that this image is made from is a beast that Lords over and controls humanity and its image is the way this is accomplished. It’s a beast system created by mankind. No one can do anything without money and having an identification number tied to them and a credit score that dictates even what your utilities and car insurance rates will be. Crappy credit caused from huge medical bills that couldn’t be helped and were too big to pay up front now cause you to pay out the nose for necessities, like vehicle insurance and gas to heat your home. The mark isn’t coming, it’s already here and has been for a long time. Hospitals and medical insurance companies disgustingly take advantage of people and often in working together on it for, you guessed it, more money! People are refused proper medical treatment because insurance companies deem it unnecessary due to the supposed cost. Medications are dropped from coverage all the time. The companies who make the medicines and now have a newly appointed ceo of this company, decides to do a 1000% mark up for maximum profits. For example, the company that makes epipens did something like this. My daughter has a severe peanut and egg allergy and we have to have an epipen on us and wherever she goes at all times. Her pediatrician wants her to always have two sets of pens, one at home and one for travels or a back up. Can’t do that however because the insurance will only cover one set due to the extreme cost. This puts her at a huge risk. If we were to pay out of pocket for the extra pen, it is in the thousands of dollars and has to be refilled every year. For clarification, having money and monetary systems such as investments and similar is not bad or evil. Lots of people with money are very generous and giving. It’s when the system consumes individuals or governments, companies and it is worshipped over everything else. When worshiped and obsessed over, money is the root of all evil. It becomes a sickness that takes over a persons mind and soul.
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Post by venge on May 11, 2019 7:10:19 GMT -6
CWOOD85 To follow on your excellent analysis cwood85 , Did not Christ say that we cannot serve God and Mammon? And he said the rich have their consolation but hardly will a rich man enter the kingdom of God. It is the poor who are not addicted to money that are free from its grip. And again he said to his disciples to sell all you have and follow me to teach them not to be a slave to things of this world, and again he said the women who threw in 2 mites that she done more then all the rich had put in.
Again, Is not money the root of all evil? Lust, envy, coveting...
It is difficult. Is it the mark....spiritually, I can see it in the forehead and right hand where we should place God. Is this why those with the mark cry when they cannot buy those things pleasant to their eyes?
Is this the humbling of the wealthy and powerful that believe their money will save them in the end but Christ said it will not save any!
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