|
Post by rt on Jan 13, 2019 12:57:18 GMT -6
Wasn't sure where to post this but just wanted to share something
my husband and I have been attending a small country church near our home. The people are great, really nice. The pastor and his family too, very down to earth, very friendly and kind hearted. They seem to have a real love for the Lord.
However, and this is not unusual. But today the service left me feeling very flat spiritually speaking. The pastor has been doing a series on dedication. One of the men form the church shared a testimony as part of this series. He talked all about how God and the church helped him through some tough spots in life. I know this guy and he is a great guy, again very kind, friendly, generous. But in the whole service there was not one mention of Jesus Christ and the saving power that changes lives.
Plenty of talk about being dedicated to God. But nothing about Jesus. This is par for the course. To me, dedication to God comes as a result of the Holy Spirit's work in my life to sanctify me. I have the Holy Spirit because I have Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I can do all manner of good works without Christ, but I cannot draw closer to God without the power of the Holy Spirit in me to convict me and shape me into the image of Christ.
Have any of you here been experiencing similar things in your church.
It saddens my heart because these are well meaning people, who I think just do not have a real grasp on doctrine and what salvation really is. They grew up in church and are submerged in the culture. The pastor seems to me to put the cart before the horse telling people to behave godly, without giving them the power to actually accomplish it.
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Jan 13, 2019 13:41:30 GMT -6
Here's my church experience the past few years: 2001 - Got married and moved to the "big city". We found a church with great people. But God woke me up in 2011 to where we are in history, and I started really listening on Sunday mornings. God started doing other things in my life too including showing me that I needed to be responsible for being in His Word (but that's a whole 'nother post ). Basically, I came to the conclusion that I was slowly starving to death spiritually. The church had gotten to be all about numbers and drawing people to church but the Gospel wasn't being preached. It was about how to live life as a Christian but nothing on Salvation and the Holy Spirit. After we had gone 6 weeks without talking about what Jesus had done, we left. (The pastor had also started quoting people that I would then go home and "research". They seemed to be people that should be avoided.) 2011 - found a church who had just hired a new pastor. He was a great speaker, preached expositionally which I enjoyed, taught the gospel. About 4 years later and I was noticing a lack of discernment. The music minister left and the new guy started singing stuff that just didn't sit right with me. Jesus Calling devotionals got handed out in the jr/sr high class. Giving was down, but they spent money to attend WillowCreek Leadership summit (those tickets are not cheap). They didn't seem bothered by who was teaching at the summit. So, while the gospel was still being given and the messages pointed to Jesus, false teachings were also creeping in. 2016 - started attending a small church closer to our house. Wonderful welcoming people. The Gospel is taught both in sermons and the music. People seem to genuinely care about each other and want to encourage each other in their walks. Prayers for our nation and President are common. Our pastor likes to ask people how God is working in their lives and encourages us to look for how God is working every day. This pastor also seems aware of much of the false teaching that is out there and seeks to steer clear of it. When we had been there a couple of months, he had us come in and meet with him. One, just to get to know us better a little bit, but also to ask us about the Gospel. He said that there are so many out there, many who even grow up in churches, and they have no idea about salvation. It really is a definite problem. So, I am very blessed to have found this church. It is tough. I think there are a lot of churches out there that teach about living a godly life but they forget to teach where that power comes from.
|
|
|
Post by rt on Jan 13, 2019 14:27:19 GMT -6
NatalieThanks for sharing. I think your current pastor has a sense of what we are dealing with. Glad you found a place to worship that seems to "get it". Sadly there are many churches around me, but few that "get it". We have been to many and it seems that there really aren't any at all.
|
|
|
Post by fitz on Jan 13, 2019 14:50:12 GMT -6
I feel your pain. In the past 42 years I've been to more churches than I can count. Some good, some not so good. Some I went to a few times and moved on. Some I stayed at for years and it broke my heart when I had to leave (for whatever reason). The last one I left was the last straw. Just a terrible experience, though I tried really hard to serve there and make things better. That was 3 years ago.
Personally, and I would not recommend it to anyone unless you hear clearly from the Lord, I have given up on church buildings. I am one of the millions of people who have decided not to participate in 501C3 "businesses" that call themselves a "church".
I fellowship with Christian friends as often as possible and with people in this online community and others like it. It's been 3 years now and I am considering trying to find a "house church" locally. I see them as a very valid option as this was the way the church began 2000 years ago. Believers meeting in each others homes for bible study, to share food, sing praises and pray for each other. This seems a whole lot better than participating in churches more concerned with exponential growth (the "numbers"), building funds and entertaining unbelieving "seekers" ("pre-Christian"...really?).
But, I guess that for the past 18 months I've stalled on doing this as I've been pretty sure Jesus is going to call us up at any moment. If He tarries much more, I may start searching in earnest this spring.
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Jan 13, 2019 15:12:42 GMT -6
Something a friend and I were talking about recently, and I don't know if this fits with this topic, but is how comfortable some Christians seem to be in this world. I have a relative that goes to church, talks about church, wants to pray before family meals, and she lives with her boyfriend. (She's not a young person either, is almost 70) I will say though that in the beginning she was convicted about this, but has seemed to have pushed those feelings deep down where she doesn't have to deal with them. "It's my life," I heard her say once. My friend was together with a group having a game night, Christian women, and a certain game was mentioned. It was one I wasn't familiar with, but my friend said it's got some very inappropriate content. One lady laughingly said, I play that with my parents; it's fun.
There's no fear of the Lord. There's no separation from the world. There's no guilt, or they ignore that uncomfortable feeling of guilt. But if there is no preaching of the need for Jesus, then no wonder.
|
|
|
Post by rt on Jan 13, 2019 15:43:04 GMT -6
Something a friend and I were talking about recently, and I don't know if this fits with this topic, but is how comfortable some Christians seem to be in this world. I have a relative that goes to church, talks about church, wants to pray before family meals, and she lives with her boyfriend. (She's not a young person either, is almost 70) I will say though that in the beginning she was convicted about this, but has seemed to have pushed those feelings deep down where she doesn't have to deal with them. "It's my life," I heard her say once. My friend was together with a group having a game night, Christian women, and a certain game was mentioned. It was one I wasn't familiar with, but my friend said it's got some very inappropriate content. One lady laughingly said, I play that with my parents; it's fun. There's no fear of the Lord. There's no separation from the world. There's no guilt, or they ignore that uncomfortable feeling of guilt. But if there is no preaching of the need for Jesus, then no wonder. I agree Natalie and have seen some of the same here in my neck of the woods. Many believers I know walk the fence, one foot in the world and the other seemingly in God, sewing to their flesh more and more and less and less to the Spirit. And another thing I notice is that there is definitely a lack of love for one another, "the love of many will grow cold"...I think it's here. There is a skin of love, but the actions that demonstrate it are seldom shown. The man that gave his testimony today stated how much love there is in the church for each other how they really are his family. Unfortunately that has not been my experience. My experience is, that love is shown toward those who tow the line, but as soon as you point out even the slightest thing that could be wrong, people back away. For instance- my husband is a very gifted engineer by trade. The church built a new building recently and the sound in the room is awful. My husband offered to do some measurements of how the sound in the room behaves to see if the root of the problem could be identified and perhaps addressed. They acted as if they were interested but then went ahead and did their own thing anyway. In other words, they gave lip service. It was just so weird. You see those involved in setting up the sound system in the first place are possessive of it. They cannot accept criticism, especially after they hyped up how much better everything was going to be with the new building. So they just put band aids on it, that only seem to make it worse not better, rather than enlisting a person with the gifts to help. I have seen this in every church we have been in- people and their pet projects and their pride. Then they go on to encourage people to use their gifts, but the reality is, only if you have certain gifts, like working in the nursery or children's church, or cleaning the building or making food. If you are a teacher or a leader you are not wanted.
|
|
|
Post by stormyknight on Jan 14, 2019 15:41:50 GMT -6
When I look back, I think my path was turned when, as a college student, I went to mass once(catholic) by myself, and I felt absolutely nothing. I knew I needed a spiritual side to my life but I didn't know what to do. Anyway, not long after that, one Sunday morning, I was watching TV and this program came on, "The World Tomorrow", the subject was "The United States and Britain in Prophecy"...WHOAAAA!!! I watched and was hooked. We eventually made contact with a pastor from the World Wide Church of God, but then moved to AZ for awhile. We made contact there and were welcomed in to the most wonderful congregation. The people were absolutely beaming with positivity. We were young and naive at the time, but could see some dark spots here and there, but we ignored it. We moved back to Kansas and were put in touch with the local congregation, who, once again were wonderful and accepting. My wife and I were eventually baptized there. We(this congregation) were from all over western Kansas, from Atwood in the northwest to a couple that lived not far from Liberal, but there were only about 25-30 people total. But it was like stepping back into the 1800's. "Shall we gather at the riiiiiiiver..." That congregation eventually dissipated after the WWCoG broke up. My wife and I pretty much stagnated after that. We talked about joining one of the churches in our home town,which were the usual Methodist/baptist/Presbyterian,and various 'suchandsuch Christian churches, but being raised catholic, I didn't want to hear the inevitable, "I though you were Catholic..etc." and the general consensus here is that the catholics think they are better than others and my family was a big part of the local congregation(I'm not sure, but I think my deceased grandmother might be up for canonization! lol). So I opted out and my wife didn't want to go alone. We didn't totally abandon our path and still turned to God's Word from time to time. Then came the news about the Great Sign on Sept. 23, 2017... and I found you all!!! As far as I'm concerned, this is the closest I've ever felt to being led by Jesus Christ to His/our Heavenly Father.
|
|
|
Post by mike on Jan 31, 2019 12:21:51 GMT -6
I feel your pain. In the past 42 years I've been to more churches than I can count. Some good, some not so good. Some I went to a few times and moved on. Some I stayed at for years and it broke my heart when I had to leave (for whatever reason). The last one I left was the last straw. Just a terrible experience, though I tried really hard to serve there and make things better. That was 3 years ago. Personally, and I would not recommend it to anyone unless you hear clearly from the Lord, I have given up on church buildings. I am one of the millions of people who have decided not to participate in 501C3 "businesses" that call themselves a "church". I fellowship with Christian friends as often as possible and with people in this online community and others like it. It's been 3 years now and I am considering trying to find a "house church" locally. I see them as a very valid option as this was the way the church began 2000 years ago. Believers meeting in each others homes for bible study, to share food, sing praises and pray for each other. This seems a whole lot better than participating in churches more concerned with exponential growth (the "numbers"), building funds and entertaining unbelieving "seekers" ("pre-Christian"...really?). But, I guess that for the past 18 months I've stalled on doing this as I've been pretty sure Jesus is going to call us up at any moment. If He tarries much more, I may start searching in earnest this spring. it wouldnt be the same without you brother
|
|
|
Post by fitz on Jan 31, 2019 15:30:52 GMT -6
Ha! Now that I read that back, it sounds rather harsh. But it's the truth, as I see it.
Glad to be here. Ministry, fellowship and education all in one!
|
|
|
Post by yardstick on Jan 31, 2019 21:04:45 GMT -6
I am glad to be here with all of you.
|
|
|
Post by Gary on Jan 31, 2019 21:56:59 GMT -6
Someone coined the term "therapeutic moral deism" to describe much of the modern religion that claims to be Christianity. It honors certain values like kindness and good citizenship. It also pays homage to a generic concept of God. But it has little in the way of gospel and even less of the Holy Spirit.
Just a heads up, some of us are discussing a church plant-lite in the Dallas area. Definitely not 501(c)3. Basically a place for fellowship, communion, and focus on the gospel and the nearness of the blessed hope. I can also imagine having a few prophecy conferences with what little time is left! Any prayers for direction and clarity would be most welcome.
|
|
|
Post by rt on Feb 1, 2019 9:26:41 GMT -6
Someone coined the term "therapeutic moral deism" to describe much of the modern religion that claims to be Christianity. It honors certain values like kindness and good citizenship. It also pays homage to a generic concept of God. But it has little in the way of gospel and even less of the Holy Spirit. Just a heads up, some of us are discussing a church plant-lite in the Dallas area. Definitely not 501(c)3. Basically a place for fellowship, communion, and focus on the gospel and the nearness of the blessed hope. I can also imagine having a few prophecy conferences with what little time is left! Any prayers for direction and clarity would be most welcome. Therapeutic moral deism about sums it up. The thing is I know our pastor personally as a friend, and absolutely know that he is saved by the power of Jesus Christ, yet I cannot for the life of me understand why he doesn't preach it more clearly from the pulpit. Definitely will pray for this new project to get off the ground with the Lord's hand to guide and direct.
|
|
|
Post by mike on Feb 1, 2019 12:52:18 GMT -6
Ha! Now that I read that back, it sounds rather harsh. But it's the truth, as I see it. Glad to be here. Ministry, fellowship and education all in one! Just so it's clear to whoever...I meant that I am always looking to see what input or insight you may have on a given topic and appreciate you being here regularly. On the other hand i did not think the rest of your post was harsh if that's how you meant it. Many have experience with local churches that are very satisfying, while others may have experience similar to yours. You are where God has led you and you've decided to listen and follow. 😁
|
|
|
Post by yardstick on Feb 1, 2019 17:27:44 GMT -6
Someone coined the term "therapeutic moral deism" to describe much of the modern religion that claims to be Christianity. It honors certain values like kindness and good citizenship. It also pays homage to a generic concept of God. But it has little in the way of gospel and even less of the Holy Spirit. Just a heads up, some of us are discussing a church plant-lite in the Dallas area. Definitely not 501(c)3. Basically a place for fellowship, communion, and focus on the gospel and the nearness of the blessed hope. I can also imagine having a few prophecy conferences with what little time is left! Any prayers for direction and clarity would be most welcome. Therapeutic moral deism about sums it up. The thing is I know our pastor personally as a friend, and absolutely know that he is saved by the power of Jesus Christ, yet I cannot for the life of me understand why he doesn't preach it more clearly from the pulpit. Definitely will pray for this new project to get off the ground with the Lord's hand to guide and direct. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Duke and Cambridge at the top of the list of top Divinity Schools? (Look at the paragraph under the table to see other 'notables'.) How many pastors across the U.S. do you think have graduated from major universities? There is a price factor here, right? Harvard Divinity Degree Programs
Harvard Master of Divinity Program
Student Handbook
From what I see above, seminaries go into about as much depth to get a doctorate in divinity as they do to get any other doctorate. Assuming that typically a Bachelors is required before the pursuit of a higher level degree: To get a Bachelors in the 'hard' sciences, requires labs and technical courses. These labs and courses are designed to prepare students for the technical aspects of research (from whence deep teaching of scriptures would benefit); yet they aren't taught to Divinity students; but business, marketing, and management principles are! Why? Do you really need a Bachelors in anthropology or paleontology to pastor a church? Sure would be a 'nice to have'; but logically, no; however, you certainly need some accounting to handle the financials! I probably don't need to point out that getting a bachelor's in Business is easier than getting a Bachelors in Astronomy, Archaeology, or any other 'hard sciences' including those previously mentioned (and it doesn't hurt to point out that those fields pay more). And of all the pastors out there, the Sproals, Misslers, Grahams, Jakes, Moodys, McGhees, and others of their collective caliber, are few and far between, dont you agree?
|
|