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Post by yardstick on Oct 11, 2018 20:03:44 GMT -6
My issue with having the earth be billions of years old is that fact that there would have been death before sin entered the world. This is a great point, and not an argument I have heard before!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2018 20:17:07 GMT -6
lolol...I wish that ring was real. It’s a replica Houston Astros World Series ring. It’s really big and heavy. And super gawdy. The picture is janky and doesn’t do it justice. I also believe the earth is young ...around 6,000 years, and definitely not billions of years old. And Answers in Genesis was a literal God send in my life when I stumbled upon Ken Hamm and his ministry. I will try and write out the details later when I have a few spare moments, but I am very thankful for him and his staff and what they represent. For some reason, this topic can really ruffle feathers within our Christian family. It’s honeslty a topic I have had more deep discussions about than almost any other topic from the Bible. I am glad that you started this thread Mike. Hope it generates some thoughtful discussions. Mike & Soup: I appreciate the videos, and enjoyed reading both of your comments. I agree, a young earth belief makes the most sense. I had a pastor in Germany in the 80s who taught on this subject. I'm not sure if it was him, but I remember someone saying they believed the Grand Canyon was made when the water was removed from the earth after the flood. Interesting thought though, and at least it's looking in the right direction. Soup, glad to see you're an Astros fan. I'm a Sox fan looking forward to the ALCS. awesome Bernie. This should really be a great series. Trying to score tickets to game 3 when it comes back to Houston
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Post by Natalie on Oct 11, 2018 20:44:35 GMT -6
My issue with having the earth be billions of years old is that fact that there would have been death before sin entered the world. This is a great point, and not an argument I have heard before! I think it might be one of the arguments Ken Ham uses.
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Post by mike on Oct 11, 2018 21:51:05 GMT -6
My issue with having the earth be billions of years old is that fact that there would have been death before sin entered the world. This is a great point, and not an argument I have heard before! I have and I think that discussion angle works when debating with someone who will acknowlegde that they believe in Jesus but doesn't know the word. That person needs some educating and the right heart and they may be won over to a proper world view. The person who doesn't believe won't care if there was sin since he/she would think we came from the ooze
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Post by kjs on Oct 22, 2018 11:50:57 GMT -6
I have come across a Christian Evolutionist – who thinks the world is “ Billions and Billions Old”… Problem is – He brushes aside these facts …. Like it just a matter of opinion ……
Based on the rate of recession, the moon cannot be very old {the Moon is being pushed away from Earth by 1.6 inches (4 centimeters) per year}. If it (the Moon) were even 20,000 to 30,000 years old, it would at some earlier time have been so close-it would have fallen into our planet!" But most astronomy books teach that the moon is over four billion years old, which poses a major dilemma—less than 1.5 billion years ago the moon would have been touching the earth!
Like other planets, the earth has a magnetic field that is decaying quite rapidly. We are now able to measure the rate at which the magnetic energy is being depleted and develop models to explain the data. Dr. Thomas G. Barnes noted that between 1835 and 1965 geophysicists had made some 26 measurements of the magnetic dipole moment of the earth’s magnetic field. When plotted against time (that is, the year of measurement) these data points fitted a decay curve which Barnes calculated had a ‘halflife’ (halving period) of only 1,400 years. On this basis he concluded that the earth’s magnetic field was less than 10,000 years old, and so the earth must likewise be that young.
Dinosaur Soft Tissue -- a Tyrannosaurus rex thigh bone that still retained well-preserved soft tissue (which included blood vessels and cells). Evolutionists say these dinosaur tissues are more than 65 million years old, but laboratory studies have shown that there is no known way—and likely none possible—for biological material to last more than thousands of years.
AND THIS is just three items .... that "prove" there is no need fr Billions and Billions of years...............
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Post by bondservant on Nov 27, 2018 7:59:28 GMT -6
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Post by mike on Nov 27, 2018 8:33:13 GMT -6
bondservant - this is heresy! There is no pre-Adamic flood or any other event before the 6 days of creation. What I find interesting is that the secular world cannot deny the evidence that all "species" derive from a common ancestor. They just cant find enough evidence to definitively state 10 of 10 animals come from a common ancestor and have to try to dispel the gospel message that we are all born into in sin as sin entered the world through one man. They tag it at 100,000-200,000 years in order to try to retain the myth of evolution. There is zero evidence of that as well. Our Lord and creator is making final efforts for people to 'wake up' and realize that it was He who made all things!
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Post by mike on Nov 27, 2018 8:39:22 GMT -6
re-reading the article do you see how the scientists denial of God causes them to struggle to fit and squeeze their assumptions of billion year old earth into their thinking when the evidence they find doesnt jive? They talk about the dinosaurs being extinct 65 million years ago...why is that? Because they do not want to accept that the dinosaurs along with every creature save those on the ark were wiped out only about 4300 years ago.
Our worldview should always start with the bible being accurate, not the science. Science is actually proving the bible is/was accurate.
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Post by bondservant on Nov 27, 2018 8:58:40 GMT -6
Although the dates might be wrong, I do find the theory of a "Pre-Adamic Flood Theory" interesting. I am in no way supporting or denying either side. I do agree that the article is clearly off base with the time line laid out in scripture. I have also looked at the "Gap Theory" with an open mind.
I posted the article for a healthy discussion as I feel the majority of those that post here are mature enough to discuss these things. If the post is divisive & not conducive to edifying the "body" then I would rather delete it.
I always find that God uses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise. Therefore, we can glean from the confounding "worldly wisdom".
For any of us to say that we know every detail that happened between Genesis 1:1 & 1:2 is presumptuous at best. I know I do not know. I have a few theories but I never embrace my "theories" as dogmatic.
Genesis 1 English Standard Version (ESV)
The Creation of the World
1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
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Post by bondservant on Nov 27, 2018 9:11:48 GMT -6
These are the things I am sure of:
Hebrews 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit.
The rest is opinion, theories, speculation & revelation. I would be wrong if I never said that I have said, "I feel like God, revealed this to me" then to back track & say "No, I was wrong because I was ignorant in such & such verse & scripture"
I also have much more respect for those that operate under those same principles. Is that because I try to & expect others to do the same? Maybe.... But, I would rather someone tell me "I don't know" than tell me things that they are not convinced of themselves out of a spirit of pride to make them seem smart. I will be the 1st to admit... the more I know God the more I realize that the more I need Him and the less I know about Him. The closer I get the further away I realize I am... and the more I ask Him to draw me closer to Him.
Anyways.... I am babbling. I think the coffee has kicked in....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2018 9:17:27 GMT -6
Not to kill any discussions on this, but are you aware of the creation model of Patten/Windsor:
There are some very profound resources touching on the here mentioned topics, but it will take you some time to work through...
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Post by mike on Nov 27, 2018 10:02:19 GMT -6
Bondservant allow me to further my points to you. I once upon a time believed that God created the heavens and the earth 14 billion years ago because we have a huge universe that says it has to be that old. With that worldview I tried to squeeze the scripture into man's understanding of science. Similar to you, I thought this was the right way to look at things and since I couldn't answer these tough questions, I agreed science had to be right.
There are a lot of people a lot (a whole lot) brighter than I am or will ever be so I began to try to see what those people say about creation.
First off the 6 days in Genesis are in fact sux literal days. I won't get into all the details, but everything we see morning and evening, day and night etc. through Genesis and other areas they are literal days. So why would certain people (myself included) think these days were not literal 24 hour days? For me it's because I didn't understand the scripture properly and erroneously inserted an anti-Christ worldview into the mix. I thought I even could support the view with scriptures by improperly inserting text into the error. For example a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years as a day with the Lord. Well some would use this to justify that the 6 creation days were really really long days. In context he is speaking about how longsuffering God is towards us, but others count Him as unreliable and false. Using scripture out of the context in which it is written gets a lot of people off course. Remember someone else who twisted scripture to try to get someone off course (Matt 4:8, Luke 4:5)
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Post by mike on Nov 27, 2018 10:31:47 GMT -6
Although the dates might be wrong, I do find the theory of a "Pre-Adamic Flood Theory" interesting. I am in no way supporting or denying either side. I do agree that the article is clearly off base with the time line laid out in scripture. I have also looked at the "Gap Theory" with an open mind. I posted the article for a healthy discussion as I feel the majority of those that post here are mature enough to discuss these things. If the post is divisive & not conducive to edifying the "body" then I would rather delete it. I always find that God uses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise. Therefore, we can glean from the confounding "worldly wisdom". For any of us to say that we know every detail that happened between Genesis 1:1 & 1:2 is presumptuous at best. I know I do not know. I have a few theories but I never embrace my "theories" as dogmatic. Genesis 1 English Standard Version (ESV) The Creation of the World 1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day. Also please understand that I think this is very productive and I am happy you brought it up. I had seen the article the other day on my phone and lost the link before reading it and couldnt find it again. My take on this subject is that if the beginning of the bible isnt true neither is the rest of it. Also understand that I'm not upset with you, I detest the heretical dogma that the enemy produces to a lost world, further leading them away from the Glorious Redeemer! When I started to better understand how God put us here I drew closer to Him! I also became more "righteously angry" with what is taught to unknowing people and especially children! My 13 yr old hears about evolution every day! Now the schools will have to deal with the secular view that is more in line with the absolute truth! We are instructed in 1Peter 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; 15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.So I have endeavored to move beyond the " I dont know" stage of my life, Into " God has the answers and I want to help you understand it". I would highly recommend to you and anyone else reading along, to view some of the topics covered by Answers in Genesis and/or Genesis Apologetics as both have very good content. Again what an eye opener for me to understand that there is no evidence of millions and millions of years NONE! Adam lived a long long time, and learned things in the Garden directly from God Himself. He had many many years to pass on his knowledge from the Father in the garden to his children, childrens children and so on. The things learned and taught by Adam made their way to Noah perhaps second hand (Methuselah & Lamech were both alive before Adam died).
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Post by bondservant on Nov 27, 2018 11:09:08 GMT -6
Although the dates might be wrong, I do find the theory of a "Pre-Adamic Flood Theory" interesting. I am in no way supporting or denying either side. I do agree that the article is clearly off base with the time line laid out in scripture. I have also looked at the "Gap Theory" with an open mind. I posted the article for a healthy discussion as I feel the majority of those that post here are mature enough to discuss these things. If the post is divisive & not conducive to edifying the "body" then I would rather delete it. I always find that God uses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise. Therefore, we can glean from the confounding "worldly wisdom". For any of us to say that we know every detail that happened between Genesis 1:1 & 1:2 is presumptuous at best. I know I do not know. I have a few theories but I never embrace my "theories" as dogmatic. Genesis 1 English Standard Version (ESV) The Creation of the World 1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day. Also please understand that I think this is very productive and I am happy you brought it up. I had seen the article the other day on my phone and lost the link before reading it and couldnt find it again. My take on this subject is that if the beginning of the bible isnt true neither is the rest of it. Also understand that I'm not upset with you, I detest the heretical dogma that the enemy produces to a lost world, further leading them away from the Glorious Redeemer! When I started to better understand how God put us here I drew closer to Him! I also became more "righteously angry" with what is taught to unknowing people and especially children! My 13 yr old hears about evolution every day! Now the schools will have to deal with the secular view that is more in line with the absolute truth! We are instructed in 1Peter 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; 15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.So I have endeavored to move beyond the " I dont know" stage of my life, Into " God has the answers and I want to help you understand it". I would highly recommend to you and anyone else reading along, to view some of the topics covered by Answers in Genesis and/or Genesis Apologetics as both have very good content. Again what an eye opener for me to understand that there is no evidence of millions and millions of years NONE! Adam lived a long long time, and learned things in the Garden directly from God Himself. He had many many years to pass on his knowledge from the Father in the garden to his children, childrens children and so on. The things learned and taught by Adam made their way to Noah perhaps second hand (Methuselah & Lamech were both alive before Adam died). I completely understand. I do not attempt to debate these things. I have been studying eschatology (reading Revelation & Daniel) since I was 12 the rest was like Greek to me and made no sense except John 3:16. I decided long ago when several of "my doctrines" began to have holes in them that I was going to get rid of my pre-conceived ideas. I always look at my End Times Chart that I had gotten through a wonderful "Prophetic Ministry" here in Texas that I still love to this day and remember the words of Dave Reagan as he said, "I will never stand before God with this chart & say, 'but God, it was supposed to happen like this.'" I do believe the 6 day event. Did Day 1 begin at Verse 2 or 3? 1 Corinthians 2:1-2 English Standard Version (ESV) And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. 2 For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
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Post by mike on Nov 27, 2018 13:47:48 GMT -6
Not to kill any discussions on this, but are you aware of the creation model of Patten/Windsor:
There are some very profound resources touching on the here mentioned topics, but it will take you some time to work through...
Now more than I was a year ago, I am so intrigued by the flood. Just about everything in our world is explained by this event! for example I've always wondered how we got oil from decaying, millions of years old dinosaurs...WHAT A LIE!!!!!!! Golly I wish I had the literature on the flood from Patten (wink, wink)
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