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Post by venge on Aug 4, 2018 7:04:06 GMT -6
Just found this from the now late Dr. Chuck Missler on his thoughts on Babylon Just watched it. It is an older school of thought on a literal Babylon. Typical back in the 60s-90s. Still, Jerusalem is called spiritually Sodom and Egypt. With the amount of symbolism in Revelation, it is my opinion that mystery Babylon is not literal Babylon. But a city that functions like Babylon spiritually, economically, religiously, politically, morally etc... A Capitol. Greatest city in the world. Beautiful to look at. Great Opulence. Wealthy people. Culturally superior. Viewed as impossible to destroy. That pile of rock doesn’t fit that now, nor has it for over 3 thousand years. Ask the question: What city in the world or just the Middle East, resembles Babylon [what I wrote above] today?
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Post by uscgvet on Aug 5, 2018 16:54:01 GMT -6
Rev 18:21 ... "The great city Babylon will be thrown down violently— and will never be found again."
I don't think Jerusalem falls into the category of "will never be found again".
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Post by grandpaskitzo on Aug 6, 2018 4:56:37 GMT -6
Rev 18:21 ... "The great city Babylon will be thrown down violently— and will never be found again." I don't think Jerusalem falls into the category of "will never be found again". Why do you say that? What makes it so special as to not be destroyed? If it did happen, many would have to re-evaluate their understanding of prophecy. 99% of the church holds the view that that place is untouchable, but just like Christ’s first coming, 99% we’re wrong on a lot.
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Post by fitz on Aug 6, 2018 5:32:05 GMT -6
IMHO, it can't be Jerusalem because Jesus will rule the earth from that city for 1000 years.
On the other hand, "Babylon" is destroyed...permanently.
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Post by mike on Aug 6, 2018 6:29:25 GMT -6
Jer 16:15 But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.
1Chron 23:25 For David had said, “The LORD, the God of Israel, has given rest to His people and has come to dwell in Jerusalem forever.
2Chron 33:4 Manasseh also built altars in the house of the LORD, of which the LORD had said, “My Name will remain in Jerusalem forever.”
Jer 17:25 then kings and princes will enter through the gates of this city. They will sit on the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses with their officials, along with the men of Judah and residents of Jerusalem, and this city will be inhabited forever.
2 Kings 21:7 Manasseh even took the carved Asherah pole he had made and set it up in the temple, of which the LORD had said to David and his son Solomon, “In this temple and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, I will establish My Name forever.
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Post by venge on Aug 6, 2018 11:24:36 GMT -6
IMHO, it can't be Jerusalem because Jesus will rule the earth from that city for 1000 years. On the other hand, "Babylon" is destroyed...permanently. I didn’t say Jerusalem, I showed verses pointing to its relation. Secondly, who said it’s physical Jerusalem? Could it be spiritual? Just asking the possibility.
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Post by venge on Aug 6, 2018 11:27:32 GMT -6
Rev 18:21 ... "The great city Babylon will be thrown down violently— and will never be found again." I don't think Jerusalem falls into the category of "will never be found again". It seems, since Babylon is no longer a city, it is spiritual Babylon. This will be thrown down because Christ sets up His spiritual city. But does that make it physically destroyed? I asked it above. Idk as it is conjecture. But the verses are very much linked. That is in agreement nonetheless.
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Post by stormyknight on Aug 6, 2018 12:50:08 GMT -6
My mom just pointed out Psalm 12 (also demonstrates a rapture or a disappearance of the faithful, and what is left behind is the boastful) 1Save, O LORD, for the godly one is gone; for the faithful have vanished from among the children of man.
2Everyone utters lies to his neighbor; with flattering lips and a double heart they speak.
3May the LORD cut off all flattering lips, the tongue that makes great boasts,
4those who say, “With our tongue we will prevail, our lips are with us; who is master over us?”This is a great thread. Always learning new things. btw, "stable genius" came to mind when I read verse 3 of Psalm 12.
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Post by uscgvet on Aug 7, 2018 15:11:22 GMT -6
Rev 18:21 ... "The great city Babylon will be thrown down violently— and will never be found again." I don't think Jerusalem falls into the category of "will never be found again". It seems, since Babylon is no longer a city, it is spiritual Babylon. This will be thrown down because Christ sets up His spiritual city. But does that make it physically destroyed? I asked it above. Idk as it is conjecture. But the verses are very much linked. That is in agreement nonetheless. "The great city Babylon will be thrown down" "will be" is future tense... that means it hasn't happened yet... just like the rest of the book of Revelation... "1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants— things which must shortly take place." And since normal people on earth don't usually see spiritual things: Rev 18:9 The kings of the earth who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning...This doesn't sound very "spiritual". Sounds more like a real city burning with rising smoke is actually visible to people.
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Post by mike on Aug 7, 2018 16:20:53 GMT -6
uscgvet could it be both physical and spiritual? Chapter 18 appears to be physical to me however 19:3 reads "...and her smoke rose up for ever and ever". Nothing physical can burn forever and ever can it? Perhaps a star or our sun can seem like that but in a literal sense nothing physical does. $0.02
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Post by uscgvet on Aug 7, 2018 17:15:29 GMT -6
uscgvet could it be both physical and spiritual? Chapter 18 appears to be physical to me however 19:3 reads "...and her smoke rose up for ever and ever". Nothing physical can burn forever and ever can it? Perhaps a star or our sun can seem like that but in a literal sense nothing physical does. $0.02 Well, God intends on restoring the world from the physical curse placed on it when Adam sinned. That's not spiritual... The physical restoration may make it entirely possible to burn something forever! Even with infinite heat, imagine that! I also don't believe Rev 14:9-11 is spiritual... God forbid anyone be a part of that eternity! Find Christ Now! Edit added: Dr. Missler had an interesting theory on Mystery Babylon His theory is based on the movement of idolatry historically from Babylon (original source of idolatry we see today), to Pergamos (seat of Satan), to Rome (current location of idolatry), then later in the future moving back to Shinar (original source of Babylon [Iraq]) based on the vision described in Zechariah 5...
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