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Post by mike on Jul 17, 2018 17:18:44 GMT -6
Folks I am aware some may not prescribe to this method of "Sharing the Gospel" but this video about scared me straight! The video is troubling so if it bothers you, leave the video off and listen to Charles Lawson preach and scare the hell out of you! DON'T TAKE THE MARK
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Post by venge on Jul 20, 2018 7:41:33 GMT -6
Folks I am aware some may not prescribe to this method of "Sharing the Gospel" but this video about scared me straight! The video is troubling so if it bothers you, leave the video off and listen to Charles Lawson preach and scare the hell out of you! DON'T TAKE THE MARK I laughed at the video. Everything hell is not that usually the unsaved think it is. The preacher is really into fiery damnation too. Falling into the pit. He should talk about the pit as a metaphor and not a literal pit or I’d come out the other side in China lol
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Post by mike on Jul 20, 2018 7:56:08 GMT -6
Lol Venge...He is fire and brimstone and some folks do perscribe to that perhaps you do not. None of us know for certain what hell or the lake of fire will is or will be. As for falling forever, why would you state it the way you do? You are taking a spiritual possibility and applying to a physical sense. Also there is most certainly a bottomless pit, so it is not a stretch for anyone to say one could be "falling" forever.
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Post by venge on Jul 20, 2018 10:23:42 GMT -6
Rev 9:2 says,
The bottomless pit, here identified as the abyss, shows: 1. smoke rose from it like from a giant furnace. 2. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke.
It addresses the cause and effect: Cause: Bottomless pit opened Effect: The sun and sky were darkened because it was opened.
If darkness is equal to wickedness, and the sun and sky give our light to which Christ is our light, then darkness is a world without Christ...without love....full of darkness because the pit was opened.
So to in Genesis 19:28 we see the same:
The effect: Smoke rising like a furnance. The cause: a plague or judgement.
Could a plague or judgement be the opening of the bottomless pit? Of course it could be. Could the bottomless pit being opened be a metaphor for a plague? In this context, a resounding yes!
Interestingly, when we look at Isaiah 14:31,
The smoke that comes up is an army.
Ellicott on his commentary says,
The smoke darkens the air is not taken literally. Even when we look at the beast that ascends out of the pit we see the following verse:
Rev 17:8
If the beast once was to John, and now is not...then the beast existed before John lived. One of the heads of the beast was Rome. But the beast did not exist then! So how does a beast come out of the bottomless pit? Well it climbs out...but is the beast real? No, it is not a real beast (animal). In Daniel 7:23 the angel tells Daniel the answer:
The beast that arises out of the bottomless pit is the 4th kingdom. The bottomless pit is a metaphor because the 4th kingdom that will come is not here YET but used to be here over 2 thousand years ago hence the bottomless pit is a metaphor for death. It is removal from the earth. The smoke that rises because of the pit being opened is the armies of this 4th kingdom. They will wage war and destruction which causes the light not to shine and we have only darkness.
I could go on in more detail but that should suffice.
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Post by venge on Jul 20, 2018 10:34:51 GMT -6
I should also add, Rev 9:2-3
Out of the smoke came locusts. When we go back to the smoke being armies...we can see the locusts are armies as well.
Look at Joel 1:4-5
Locusts are invading armies.
Joel 2:25
Even Isaiah 33:4
Mike said,
Mike, after what I put, you really think so? Im just following the word.
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Post by boraddict on Jul 20, 2018 20:25:06 GMT -6
Way cool venge, and I can say that because you have highlighted the "smoke" metaphor when you said: "Out of the smoke came locusts. When we go back to the smoke being armies...we can see the locusts are armies as well."
Interestingly, I discovered a few weeks ago that the smoke metaphor in the BoR is the beast. Check out Verse 9:2 linked to Verse 17:8 and notice that the beast ascends out of the bottomless pit (v. 17:8) and when he (the fifth angel that has the key) opened the bottomless pit and there arose (from the bottomless pit, v. 17:8) a beast (smoke) out of the pit as the smoke of a great furnace (v. 9:2). The great furnace is Lord Jesus (Gen. 15:17) and since the smoke is as the smoke of a great furnace (v. 9:2) then it is "as" the smoke of the Savior. Not really the smoke of the Savior mind you, but "as" the smoke of the Savior. Thus, it is the smoke of the false prophet (vv. 13:14) and that is the beast of verse 13:1.
Thus, your statement is more correctly worded as follows: "Out of the smoke came locusts. When we go back to the smoke being the beast...we can see the locusts are (his) armies."
Venge, if you like this and agree then you are even more way cooler than before.
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Post by venge on Jul 21, 2018 13:52:17 GMT -6
Way cool venge, and I can say that because you have highlighted the "smoke" metaphor when you said: "Out of the smoke came locusts. When we go back to the smoke being armies...we can see the locusts are armies as well." Interestingly, I discovered a few weeks ago that the smoke metaphor in the BoR is the beast. Check out Verse 9:2 linked to Verse 17:8 and notice that the beast ascends out of the bottomless pit (v. 17:8) and when he (the fifth angel that has the key) opened the bottomless pit and there arose (from the bottomless pit, v. 17:8) a beast (smoke) out of the pit as the smoke of a great furnace (v. 9:2). The great furnace is Lord Jesus (Gen. 15:17) and since the smoke is as the smoke of a great furnace (v. 9:2) then it is "as" the smoke of the Savior. Not really the smoke of the Savior mind you, but "as" the smoke of the Savior. Thus, it is the smoke of the false prophet (vv. 13:14) and that is the beast of verse 13:1. Thus, your statement is more correctly worded as follows: "Out of the smoke came locusts. When we go back to the smoke being the beast...we can see the locusts are (his) armies." Venge, if you like this and agree then you are even more way cooler than before. I have to disagree with Christ being the great furnace though. Let me give you some verses: All 3 were thrown into the furnace but didn't die? Why didn't they die and what is the furnace then? The furnace is affliction. It is tribulation. Ever hear the phrase, "if you cant take the heat get your rear out the kitchen?" Of course I am using a nicer word here but it has the same application. Look at what Lamentations says, One part of affliction, is famine, which is characterized as burning hot. How about Psalms? We will see next that we are silver and gold refined for the Lord. Why? Because we are tried and purged as we are tried in a furnace of affliction on the earth for His name. Lastly, I will show you one more: Christ is our rock, our fortress. But here, Isaiah is talking about the Assyrian. He flees to his rock, his fortress but God says he will have a fire in Zion and an furnace in Jerusalem. Again, this furnace is affliction. I do agree, the Beast is the 4th kingdom as Daniel states and the Locust are the armies of the beast that ascend out of the smoke of the pit. Because once a man dies, his soul go to the one who gave it, these are not reincarnated men nor men from a previous age...they are men born as any man in that time when this happens and they join the 4th kingdom as its armies.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jul 21, 2018 15:04:35 GMT -6
I am not watching the video. BUT, the dialog here by venge is reminding me of this conversation: and this: see Restoration thread
I know not all are going to agree with this conversation, but it makes more and more sense to me every time I reread it all...
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Post by mike on Jul 21, 2018 16:52:04 GMT -6
barbiosheepgirl as I said at the outset I realized some don't perscribe to this but I don't appreciate your posting in here with Restoration themes as I am not perscribed to that. Please start a new thread if you wish discuss that hell doesn't exist and God will save everyone one day.
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Post by grandpaskitzo on Jul 21, 2018 19:29:20 GMT -6
Does it matter what you guys agree or disagree on? This isn’t anyone’s thread to own, it’s God’s. At least, if we understand that He is working through us and allowing these conversations to lead us. I find all who posted here very relevant to each other, no matter what the topic to start was, or the intention of that topic. We mustn’t try to stop what God reveals in these threads based on our own desires for the direction of the conversations herein.
And to say that none of us know what any of these scriptures means is to say that God’s word isn’t revealed to us. As well, it’s contradictory to the very basis of studying His word and sharing our dialogue with each other. If we can’t know, then why discuss or even share anything? We can continue these topics in other threads, but why when it’s all here?
And lastly, nobody ever said hell doesn’t exist.
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Post by mike on Jul 21, 2018 19:45:29 GMT -6
The Restoration thread does. GPS There's this thing called courtesy for the poster who started the thread.
See I don't agree with what others believe but that's ok with me. Apparently it's not ok for you or BSG. Interjecting plausibilities into threads where the subject matter is something is not considerate. Each person has the ability to go start a topic on what they want. If you or BSG want to create your own, go ahead but please respect that I disagree with your position
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jul 21, 2018 22:54:38 GMT -6
I was not referencing Hell. by the way, I was referencing the Lake of Fire...
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