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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 0:25:52 GMT -6
Hi, After reading and responding to a few of the religious threads and getting frustrated by people using the Bible to support itself, I've decided to ask those that are familiar with the Bible to explain some of the following to me. How did Cain have a wife if everyone was descended from Adam and Eve without resorting to incest? How did they fit all species of creature on Noah's Ark? How did they get those that weren't on the continent to the boat? If God is omniscient and created us in His own image, why put the Tree of Knowledge and a talking snake there in the first damned place? Please explain these logically without resorting to 'because God is all-powerful and He can do what He wants' philosobabble (I coined a word; cool). If He could and had the mind to do all those wondrous things during the Old Testament days, He sure could make a miraculous difference now as well. These are but a smattering of inconsistencies. I'm sure I'm missing quite a few; feel free to add your own. Please help. I didn't find the right solution from the Internet. References:- arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1044858creative video services
Thanks!
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Post by boraddict on May 29, 2018 2:11:44 GMT -6
Hi, After reading and responding to a few of the religious threads and getting frustrated by people using the Bible to support itself, I've decided to ask those that are familiar with the Bible to explain some of the following to me. How did Cain have a wife if everyone was descended from Adam and Eve without resorting to incest? How did they fit all species of creature on Noah's Ark? How did they get those that weren't on the continent to the boat? If God is omniscient and created us in His own image, why put the Tree of Knowledge and a talking snake there in the first damned place? Please explain these logically without resorting to 'because God is all-powerful and He can do what He wants' philosobabble (I coined a word; cool). If He could and had the mind to do all those wondrous things during the Old Testament days, He sure could make a miraculous difference now as well. These are but a smattering of inconsistencies. I'm sure I'm missing quite a few; feel free to add your own. Please help. Hi clintbarton, There are several answers to your questions and I will give you mine. At the time of Adam and Eve the people lived for 900 years or more (Gen. Chapter 5). So lets start with the first generation children of approximately 20 to 40 years. These adults would have naturally married and had children of their own and then there was a second generation of children during which Adam and Eve were also still having children and so forth until the earth was populated with millions of people each living hundreds of years. However, I do not believe those marriages would have been looked upon as incest. That is, perhaps those people had a more perfect DNA in comparison to ours that might have allowed them to live such long lives; that were resistant to various physical problems. That is my best guess. At the time of Noah's ark the land mass was much different than it is now. For instance the water fell and flooded the land mass and it was then that the continents were created (Gen. 10:25). So the animals would have been accessible to Noah's Ark (before the flood) because they were not on distant continents but the same land mass. Thus, a couple of cats, dogs, elephants, and so forth; but they would have been different than they are now. For instance the sheep would have been one type and then all others that are upon the earth now would have come from that one type. Same with the dogs, cats, etc. Personally, I feel that the Lord created additional species after the flood but there is no proof of that in scripture. One of my favorites is the red winged black bird. Why was a touch of red placed upon that black bird's wings? It is simply amazing. Scripture is heavy laden with metaphor. Thus, the tree of life is metaphor for the Savior and the tree of knowledge of good and evil is metaphor for Lucifer. Thus, to not eat of "the tree of knowledge of good and evil" is to not speak to Lucifer (Gen. 2:17). Secondly, the metaphor "serpent" at times represents Christ as in the brass serpent (Num. 21:9), and at times represents Lucifer as in the serpent speaking to Eve (Gen. 3:1-7). Thus, the enmity was between the serpent Lucifer and the woman Eve, and between Lucifer's followers and her children, and "it" (Christ) and Lucifer (Gen. 3:15). Watch for the change up in the metaphors. I do not see inconsistencies in scripture. It is simply a matter of finding the answers, and if an answer does not fit ones level of intelligence then find an answer that does. Often the answers that I find are superseded by others research and my growth and knowledge in scripture continues. I do not see an end in sight. As far as God working during the Old Testament times that is true and it is also true now. Notice that Ron Wyatt (d. 1999?) was given the ability to find multiple archaeological sites such as Noah's Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah, the Red Sea crossing, Mount Sinai, etc. Additionally, Wyatt was not the only one to be inspired and driven to do this searching that continues to this day. The main thing that we are looking for now is the return of the Savior. This is synonymous to the birth of the Savior and his ministry and many were driven by God to search during those times (Luke 2:25-26, John 1:41).
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Post by venge on May 29, 2018 4:29:24 GMT -6
Boraddict
I have always taken Genesis 10:25, the earth being divided, not a separation of land. In Peleg’s time, people are all together still. We know in the tower of Babel’s time, the earth was divided. God change the languages. In the days of Nimrod, the earth was divided. Also, in the days of Peleg, the earth was divided. I take it as mankind branching out away from one another and discovering new lands, populating them with their own peoples, cultures....
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Post by fitz on May 29, 2018 4:49:19 GMT -6
Hi Clint,
People seek easy answers. Some people just want to disprove the existence of God more than they want to know if He really does exist.
Atheists are famous for taking scripture out of context and forming an opinion/argument around words they cannot comprehend. The bible is very clear that without the Holy Spirit's guidance, a person who does not believe in God can never fully understand scripture. Atheists think they can prove that God (if He exists) is an ogre, a monster, a murderous puppet master, etc. However, Christians know Him as a loving father. Full of mercy and grace. How can these two perspectives be so different?
1 Corinthians 2:14 says: The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
Without this understanding, it's easy to read what seems to be clear contradictions or things that are opposed to "known science". However, this is not true. Oftentimes, people are seeking easy answers to very complex questions, and they do so with a hateful purpose; to prove there is no God (I'm not lumping you in with this lot. Perhaps you ask in sincerity).
The key to getting this knowledge is that you must first receive the Spirit of God or your understanding will never be complete. Why should God reveal Himself to one who denies or doubts His existence?
The key to it all is that one must first believe, then receive. In this world, people want to receive, then believe. As with scripture, the way God does things is often the exact opposite of how the world operates.
Believe He is, and then you will see!
If you are sincere, then ask God to reveal Himself to you. He will never turn down a sincere request for this. But you must humble yourself enough to ask with a sincere heart. God wants everyone to know and have a relationship with Him. But, He is a gentleman and will never force Himself on anyone.
All of scripture points to one thing...it is by faith that we receive the knowledge, mercy and grace of God. Head knowledge will never get you there. If you must first know, before you believe, you will never get there.
John 3:16 & 17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Believe on the only One who can save you, then you will begin to comprehend the deep things of God. And it's the most amazing journey you can ever take.
Truth!
Fitz
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Post by venge on May 29, 2018 6:49:01 GMT -6
Amen Fritz!
I remember the first time when I read the OT and saw verses detailing Christ life and death. I thought....”it was always here in the OT! WoW!”
How do people not believe? This was written before Christ and yet it’s prophecy was of him.
It was a huge eye opener
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Post by boraddict on May 29, 2018 7:43:30 GMT -6
Boraddict I have always taken Genesis 10:25, the earth being divided, not a separation of land. In Peleg’s time, people are all together still. We know in the tower of Babel’s time, the earth was divided. God change the languages. In the days of Nimrod, the earth was divided. Also, in the days of Peleg, the earth was divided. I take it as mankind branching out away from one another and discovering new lands, populating them with their own peoples, cultures.... Yes I agree. There were multiple things going on and I think all of these things are encapsulated in this one Verse. Not only was the tower of Babel taken down and the population divided but the continents as well. Thus, it must have been a great earthquake in which the tectonic plates moved causing the tower to shake and fall.
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Post by mike on May 29, 2018 7:44:27 GMT -6
Hi, After reading and responding to a few of the religious threads and getting frustrated by people using the Bible to support itself, I've decided to ask those that are familiar with the Bible to explain some of the following to me. How did Cain have a wife if everyone was descended from Adam and Eve without resorting to incest? How did they fit all species of creature on Noah's Ark? How did they get those that weren't on the continent to the boat? If God is omniscient and created us in His own image, why put the Tree of Knowledge and a talking snake there in the first damned place? Please explain these logically without resorting to 'because God is all-powerful and He can do what He wants' philosobabble (I coined a word; cool). If He could and had the mind to do all those wondrous things during the Old Testament days, He sure could make a miraculous difference now as well. These are but a smattering of inconsistencies. I'm sure I'm missing quite a few; feel free to add your own. Please help. I didn't find the right solution from the Internet. References:- arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1044858creative video services
Thanks! ClintBarton, Thanks for the questions and welcome to the Unsealed forum. I could never pretend to have answers to the questions you ask in and of myself. In fact I have had many of the same questions too. Personally I've searched the bible and other information to try to "make it all make sense". While I have some answers now, as fitz says (I'm completely paraphrasing) some of the things are too difficult to understand without faith. Until I decided to say to God "I trust You" my vision was obscured. I am not aware of your worldview but would say to you keep an open mind about answers to some of the things you question before deciding what is right/wrong/proper/improper etc. Without resorting to the bible at the moment, I would probably echo a lot of boraddict says about Cain having a wife. In fact aside from the bible we have little to go on as to an explanation for creation. As a doubting Thomas myself I had always asked the next question when an answer seemed insufficient. For example the debate of creation vs. evolution is one that strikes me and many others as difficult to accept especially when you throw incest into the mix. Looking at some historical context as well as biblical we can see that it was not uncommon for most to "take wives" from among kin. I have resolved that in the beginning it was an acceptable practice as it was God's command to populate the earth. Genetics were extremely pure before the fall of man. Noah...again I have my thoughts on this and have resolved myself to believe God made it happen. But in an effort to help you understand where I derive that position from I would ask that you read through the attached link and review this website further as the author of the books/articles found here had helped me to understand the creation and organization of our own solar system, the flood and some other miracles in the bible. God is the great orchestrator and He has set things in motion from the beginning, all perfectly timed and in order as only He could. Again I strongly urge you to read that information. It helped me, it can help you and its not the bible but what I did find in it is truth. In fact science based truth! Lastly the age old question of why would God put the tree and the snake there in the first place. The simple answer is choice. According to biblical text Adam & Eve literally walked, talked and hung out with God until they chose to disobey. If God didnt put the choice there, what choice was there? Here is where some folks (Calvinists) will disagree with me in that we dont choose anything, God orchestrates it all. Well then my take on that (worldview) is God is that monster you think He is. Every action, decision good and bad, He is responsible for and I'm not accountable for it because He chose it for me. I would offer you a few things here my friend. A well respected philosopher Ravi Zacharias has many YouTube videos on such topics. Here is one of those about freewill and most of them he does not cite the bible as proofs rather the principles of the bible. Enjoy
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Post by mike on May 29, 2018 7:46:26 GMT -6
Boraddict I have always taken Genesis 10:25, the earth being divided, not a separation of land. In Peleg’s time, people are all together still. We know in the tower of Babel’s time, the earth was divided. God change the languages. In the days of Nimrod, the earth was divided. Also, in the days of Peleg, the earth was divided. I take it as mankind branching out away from one another and discovering new lands, populating them with their own peoples, cultures.... Yes I agree. There were multiple things going on and I think all of these things are encapsulated in this one Verse. Not only was the tower of Babel taken down and the population divided but the continents as well. Thus, it must have been a great earthquake in which the tectonic plates moved causing the tower to shake and fall. BORA, if you have time check out the link I just posted about creation. It may help you understand how the continents were formed. This book was linked in another thread by Stephan and the other articles on the site were complete eye openers for me. Like WOW!! They are not a "quick" read but thats coming from someone who doesnt like to read
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Post by Natalie on May 29, 2018 7:53:26 GMT -6
If God is omniscient and created us in His own image, why put the Tree of Knowledge and a talking snake there in the first damned place? This is a question that even Christians can struggle with. But God is glorified through the plan of salvation that He worked out from the very beginning. He knew what Adam and Eve would do; He allowed the snake to talk to them. And He had a plan to bring salvation. He sent His Son to bring us back to Him. He gave mankind the ability to choose -- from Adam and Eve to present day.
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Post by venge on May 29, 2018 8:06:31 GMT -6
Boraddict I have always taken Genesis 10:25, the earth being divided, not a separation of land. In Peleg’s time, people are all together still. We know in the tower of Babel’s time, the earth was divided. God change the languages. In the days of Nimrod, the earth was divided. Also, in the days of Peleg, the earth was divided. I take it as mankind branching out away from one another and discovering new lands, populating them with their own peoples, cultures.... Yes I agree. There were multiple things going on and I think all of these things are encapsulated in this one Verse. Not only was the tower of Babel taken down and the population divided but the continents as well. Thus, it must have been a great earthquake in which the tectonic plates moved causing the tower to shake and fall. I don’t want to get off subject but want to reply: But the spreading of Continents is still an unproved hypotheses. An educated guess. If there was one land mass, and it split up, nothing says it happened in the time of Peleg. If it did happen, it may have been the time of 🦕 🦖 dinosaurs! 😬 Other books outside the Bible suggest an earthquake or great wind knocked down Babel. But IDK
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Post by Natalie on May 29, 2018 8:12:58 GMT -6
Noah and the Ark -- Last summer our family took a trip to see the replica Answers in Genesis built. It's huge. There is a book I read with my kids that has a diagram in the back. The Ark would have been about 450 ft long, 75 ft wide, and 45 ft tall (about a four story building). It had the cargo capacity of 522 standard railroad stock cars. Each railroad car could hold 240 medium sized animals. 188 railcars would hold 45,000 sheep-sized animals. Definitely enough to represent the different kinds of animals that existed. (I found a quote that says there are only about 500 different families (kinds) of mammals, amphibian, reptiles, and birds today) That would leave the rest of the ark for food storage, a huge aviary for birds, places to let animals out for exercise, and an area for Noah's family. They use the figure of sheep sized animals because most animal kinds are not huge animals like elephants and giraffes.
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Post by mike on May 29, 2018 8:46:06 GMT -6
another good one - no video, just listen
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Post by stormyknight on May 29, 2018 10:27:23 GMT -6
I do not see inconsistencies in scripture. It is simply a matter of finding the answers, and if an answer does not fit ones level of intelligence then find an answer that does. Often the answers that I find are superseded by others research and my growth and knowledge in scripture continues. I do not see an end in sight.Well said,@borraddict. Knowing that your initial interpretation or understanding will change over time is a hallmark of a diligent student and a worthy teacher.
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Post by barb84 on May 29, 2018 16:01:29 GMT -6
"Answers Book" from Answers in Genesis addresses a lot of the tough questions. In regard to who was Cain' s wife, he had to marry a sister. Marrying close relatives was not prohibited until God gave Moses the law. By this time the gene pool would have been full of mutations and the Lord gave instructions about close relatives marrying.
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