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Post by domagb on Jan 27, 2018 1:32:02 GMT -6
In First Corinthians 3:15, the apostle Paul wrote about the loss that can be created by fire. He wrote, “If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” The believer is saved, but at the Bema seat judgement, per se, their works will be tested by fire. Some will come through that experience "smelling of smoke". As if just barely escaping the fires of hell...yet they will be saved. The only work you can't burn up is trusting in Christ. [Edit] I should be clear...the Bema seat judgement isn't a judgement, but primarily for the rewards we receive for the treasure we've stored in heaven. Those works that won't burn up. And there is no punishment here at all. It's quite a happy event...receiving crowns from Jesus ( I think 5 different crowns) ...only to turn around and cast them at His feet! But, the rest of our "works" that don't stand the test are chaff, that was my point. I find this intriguing. Can you elaborate please? Now in Math 25 we will see Jesus separate the sheep from the goats, the sheep being called to his right. At this judgmenet there are no goats. But there will be a separation. As Jesus calls those forward to be given awards, there will left those standing who have none. Math 10:32 Then everyone who shall confess Me before men, I will confess him before My Father who is in Heaven. 33 But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in Heaven.So names and persons will be called forward and acknowledged but others will not. Perhaps the "as fire" will be the Father stating after this separation: ...And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants...cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.This gnashing of teeth is the regret of not doing more for the Lord, His way, giving one's life to Him. Now remember, these are Christians with new bodies, but now they have been removed from sin, which may have had a big part of their lives. There are no more places of sin, no more unbelievers tempting them, thus they no longer can lean on any bad habits or sin when things are not going well. Thus the need for the leaves of the Tree of Life. It will be a very heavy "judgement" to not be acknowledged, one to to deal with through eternity, but there will be no punishment. Only they will not be allowed in the City. Those who have been awarded will be given garments of white, and will return to the Earth with the Lord when He faces the anti-christ and his armies. Rev 19:7 ... For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has prepared herself. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white. For the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. 9 And he said to me, Write, Blessed are those who have been called to the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he said to me, These are the true sayings of God. 11 ¶ And I saw Heaven opened. And behold, a white horse! And He sitting on him was called Faithful and True. And in righteousness He judges and makes war. 14 And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.It is thus, how I believe the Bema Seat will occur.
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Post by domagb on Jan 27, 2018 1:38:20 GMT -6
Some people refuse to believe the "outer darkness" refers to this place nor that the "outer darkness" is for any type of christian.
Where does the phrase "Outer Darkness" come from? It is mentioned 3 times in the Bible: Math 8:12, Math 22:13, Math 25:30.
Math 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, 3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. 4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. 5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: 6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. 7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. 9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. 10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. 11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Math 25:14 ¶ For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. 15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. 16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. 17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. 18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money. 20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. 21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. 22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. 23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. 24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. 26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: 27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. 28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. 29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. 30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Spiro Zodhiates, a Greek scholar, in the Hebrew-Greek Key Study Bible speaks on this issue. here is what Spiro Zodhiates says in that Bible in the notes of Math 8:11-12:
The expression "outer darkness" in Matthew 25:30 occurs at the end of the parable of the talents which emphasizes the necessity of serving Christ faithfully. However, the "outer darkness" of Matthew 25:30 may not refer to Ge'ena... Others say that this parable does not refer to all to be unbelievers or hypocrites but to the believers who neglect to exercise their God-given talents. The Lord calls such a servent (wicked ...4190) (Matt. 25:26) and (cursed 2672) (Matt. 25:41) despite the fact that he is one of the Lord's servants. This is similiar to the instance where the Lord called Peter "Satan" (Matthew 16:23). Hence, these terms may also be applied to believers who have failed the Lord in their service. The words of Paul in I Corinthians 3:10-15 are in full support of the fact that the works of faith as servants will be tried by fire. Therefore, in this instance, the "outer darkness" may be a reference to a place of position of far less rewards for the servants who proved themselves less diligent than those who used who used and exercised their talents to the fullest. The expression would then refer to degrees of the enjoyment in heaven rather than referring to hell. This teaching of varied rewards is part and parcel of the inherent doctrine of the NT that neither heaven nor hell are experienced equally by all because this would anull the justice of God. Entrance into heaven in gained by accepting Christ's sacrifice for justification but a person's rewards in heaven will be determined by what he did for Christ on earth (Matt 5:3-12, 7:21-23, 10:15, Luke 6:20-26, 12:47-48, Acts 10:4, 31, Romans 2:1-16, 14:10-23, I Cor 3:13, 4:5, II Cor 5:10, I John 4:17, Revelation 20:11-15). The Christian's faithfulness to his tasks and responsibilities in the world is considered of such paramount importance that the same metaphor, the "outer darkness," that was used by the Lord to indicate the punishment of the unbeliever for his rejection of God's salvation is used of the believer who does not live in obedience to the light he has received. In the case of the non-believer, it will be punishment of fire and burning (Matt. 13:30; John 15:6). In the case of the believer, it will be weeping or expressing sorrow over not having used the opportunities God provided. Though his tears will be wiped away (Rev. 7:17; 21:4), he will nonetheless suffer a loss of reward. The phrase "gnashing of teeth" indicates anger at oneself for ignoring the marvelous opportunities that he had on earth. The same emotional attitude will be expressed by the unbeliever, but in his case, he will be weeping about the lost opportunity and genuine and true repentance followed by works of repentance. "Gnashing of teeth," in the case of the unbeliever, refers to being angry at oneself because he did not decide to go through the narrow gate and live in the straight way when he had the opportunity.
I stumbled upon this when studying my Bible as I had concluded similarly on my own studies, although I am no Greek scholar. So I share what an actual Greek scholar says on the subject as well.
The phrase "Outer Darkness" is sometimes equated with the word "Gehenna" which is often translated as Hell or Hades. Thus the "outer darkness" can be used to describe hell for the unbelievers or outside New Jerusalem for believers.
The question arises when we look at the words "Gehenna" and "Outer Darkness", will those unfruitful christians will be in some aweful place? But is that true? Even Spiro Zodhiates, the Greek scholar I quoted above stated: Though his tears will be wiped away (Rev. 7:17; 21:4)
We must not forget scripture does say there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. But I also shared scriptures above that say:
Rev 22: NKJV 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
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jerryh
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Post by jerryh on Feb 17, 2018 4:27:07 GMT -6
You're right about the outer darkness being eternal regrets. For all eternity for example the peeps that supported the Beast and false prophet go into that lake. I don't know if Hell is one of your core beliefs as well so sorry if I'm insulting anyone by not ascribing to that interpretation as it relates to Rev. So IMO this is good news but of course it takes away one of our biggest Bible sticks if Hell loses that bite.
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