pault
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Post by pault on Jan 23, 2018 16:26:16 GMT -6
Seven years ago I began searching the scriptures to know the "signs of the times", sensing in my spirit that something unusual was happening in the world that needed an explanation. I found myself stuck on certain passages in the bible that caught my eye and would not let me go. Even today whenever I read those passages I find myself stuck once more, transfixed almost by the sheer brilliance of their words. I'm speaking about Matthew 24 in particular, a chapter that reveals the plans of God about the end times more than any other part of the Bible, so I believe.
If you take Matthew 24 apart it is divided quite well into two parts, the first is Jesus describing the general troubles that have afflicted the Earth and its people over the centuries, things that we know so well like "wars and rumours of wars", Earthquakes in diverse places and famines and pestilences. The second half of the chapter concentrates on specifics of much finer details such as, "The abomination of desolation", the days of Noah being repeated and the description of the rapture.
There's a lot to take in at first sight but I was able to see some surprising details which I'd like to share with you. First of all Jesus tells his disciples "As it was in the days of Noah.......so shall it be" I saw something in this for the first time, like a bolt of lightning, Jesus was warning us that iniquity would rise up again just like it did in the days of Noah and was the main reason why God judged the World back then and the same reason the rapture will come. Iniquity can and does rise to a level of intensity that God cannot tolerate it any longer, when this happens He steps in with swift judgement, swift by Gods standards not ours, remember He is slow to anger. Most of us are not aware of the ever rising tide of evil in the world, we have become like lobsters that are slowly being boiled to death. Remember Lot, he was surrounded by evil to the extent that his righteous soul was vexed but still he refused to leave Sodom until the Angels came to extract him.
My point is we are living in those days right now, days like Noah's day, days of intense and concentrated evil. Turn on your TV set and see how many programs are portraying homosexuality as normal. See how many of the stories are filled with horrific violence, nudity and immorality of every kind. Witchcraft and the supernatural are also extremely popular themes along with vampires and strange beasts and aliens. That's just on the fantasy side, in reality there are terrible things happening all over the world. Noah's days are now. Just one more thing about this although Noah tried very hard to reach the people and warn them about the coming flood his words fell on deaf ears and no one responded until it was too late. So shall it be.
I'd like to add more to this in stages if I may, so I'm gonna leave it there for now if you don't mind. Any comments are gladly received. Please feel free to add your own insights.
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Post by Natalie on Jan 23, 2018 17:03:53 GMT -6
God got my attention about the same time as you. He mainly used all the "record breaking" weather. Other circumstances drove me to taking Bible study and prayer much more seriously. I was made aware of the state of the church in America. It was like my eyes were suddenly opened to what was going on. Over the last few years, not only am I more aware of the time we are living in but also that it is very much a spiritual battle taking place.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jan 26, 2018 20:31:56 GMT -6
welcome pault ! Since you started this thread with the title of Matt24 I will role with it: 1st, as I understand, Matt 24 is Jesus answering 3 parts of a question asked by his disciples: vs 3 “Tell us, (1) when will these things happen [the temple distrusction], and (2) what will be the sign of Your coming, and (3) of the end of the age?”Has anyone ever noticed that Matthew writes down three times that Jesus warns about being deceived ? vs 4 5And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5“For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.vs 11 “Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.vs23 &24 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
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Post by mike on Jan 26, 2018 22:08:56 GMT -6
welcome pault ! Since you started this thread with the title of Matt24 I will role with it: 1st, as I understand, Matt 24 is Jesus answering 3 parts of a question asked by his disciples: vs 3 “Tell us, (1) when will these things happen [the temple distrusction], and (2) what will be the sign of Your coming, and (3) of the end of the age?”Has anyone ever noticed that Matthew writes down three times that Jesus warns about being deceived ? vs 4 5And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5“For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.vs 11 “Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.vs23 &24 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.Interesting BSG, I think many have been misled by false Christ's and false prophets and that still continues today. But I don't see either the false prophets or currently any false Christ's showing great signs or wonders today. Do you?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2018 1:54:56 GMT -6
welcome pault ! Since you started this thread with the title of Matt24 I will role with it: 1st, as I understand, Matt 24 is Jesus answering 3 parts of a question asked by his disciples: vs 3 “Tell us, (1) when will these things happen [the temple distrusction], and (2) what will be the sign of Your coming, and (3) of the end of the age?”Has anyone ever noticed that Matthew writes down three times that Jesus warns about being deceived ? vs 4 5And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5“For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.vs 11 “Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.vs23 &24 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.Interesting BSG, I think many have been misled by false Christ's and false prophets and that still continues today. But I don't see either the false prophets or currently any false Christ's showing great signs or wonders today. Do you? Just read through this thread, btw a warm welcome here pault . Glad to see you and your well structured thoughts. And then it struck me light a thunderbolt: For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
To answer mike's question: No, I don't see that today. My next thought was: Why not? Then my eyes turned to the last phrase: ".... if possible, even the elect". Why is it not possible? Because the elect won't be here then. The elect are going to be raptured, BEFORE this happens. I think, this could be a valid explanation of the last phrase, besides some other interpretations. What do you think about?
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Post by mike on Jan 27, 2018 6:38:48 GMT -6
@stephan when I think of false Christ's today I think in terms of some obvious ones like Manson, Jones or Koresh. Though they had few followers they still claim to be someone and had deceived. Also I always contemplate Mohammed in the equation as his teaching leads billions astray still today
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Post by witness1 on Jan 27, 2018 8:24:30 GMT -6
Interesting BSG, I think many have been misled by false Christ's and false prophets and that still continues today. But I don't see either the false prophets or currently any false Christ's showing great signs or wonders today. Do you? Just read through this thread, btw a warm welcome here pault . Glad to see you and your well structured thoughts. And then it struck me light a thunderbolt: For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
To answer mike's question: No, I don't see that today. My next thought was: Why not? Then my eyes turned to the last phrase: ".... if possible, even the elect". Why is it not possible? Because the elect won't be here then. The elect are going to be raptured, BEFORE this happens. I think, this could be a valid explanation of the last phrase, besides some other interpretations. What do you think about? I think the rapture is a good possibility as to why the elect won’t be deceived. But I also wonder if watchmen will be alert to the times and be able to warn others. I keep going back to... “WHY are we watching? If we are just going to disappear in our sleep, why be alert to the times and seasons?”
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2018 11:15:20 GMT -6
mike and witness1, Thank you for your feedback. Don't get me wrong, I am of the strong opinion that we as watchman are called to watch and warn others. I fully agree 100%. This is absolutely clear from scripture. I am not talking about any sort of escapism. But I also think, that the delusions are getting stronger and stronger. If we are founded in the bible and filled with the Holy Ghost, we can see this yet today. 2 Ths 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.Maybe there is a connection between Matth 24 and 2 Ths 2. Possibly the delusions will reach a point of no return in the future...
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Post by witness1 on Jan 27, 2018 15:03:43 GMT -6
Sadly, you're absolutely right that the delusions are getting stronger and stronger. And yes, they will reach a point of no return. Interesting idea that Matt 24 and 2 Thes 2 are connected. I believe you're right.
But I think we as watchmen may be forgetting about what I consider to be a third group of people. There are 1) watchmen, 2) the lost who will continue to believe lies and for whom no amount of warning will help, and 3) true believers who are not watching, either due to sin or just because they are busy doing the Lord's work and are a different part of the body.
If you think about it, watchmen are to warn their own people when they see something. They are not watching so they can warn other nations (ie non-believers), although we should absolutely do that too like Noah did. When I look at many faithful brothers and sisters who may not be completely awake to the times but who are still serving the Lord, I wonder if they are the ones we are primarily watching for. Thoughts?
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Post by fitz on Jan 27, 2018 16:34:17 GMT -6
Totally agree. I have been telling all my christian friends and family (starting about 6 months ago). Just have felt like that is what I was called to do at this time. Pretty sure that some think I've lost my mind, but some readily agree and say they've seen the signs too. Either way, I'm doing what I feel led to do while watching.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 1:05:08 GMT -6
Sounds like someone should start a thread on watchmen and the purpose of being a watchman...
Though I agree wholeheartedly with you, the question comes to mind, what is it we are warning about? The rapture? Prosecution? That we should prepare to hide and stockpile food? That we should intensify our missionary efforts?
Think about twice.
Indeed I see one target group being our own people. But if they are busy doing the work of our Lord, then why should they be warned if the rapture comes next?
The sleeping ones seem to be a very valid target group.
And I've made the experience that unbelievers are more open to that whole stuff than ever before. And sadly often more open than many believers....
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Post by witness1 on Jan 28, 2018 6:53:31 GMT -6
Those are exactly my questions too, stephen. Maybe a separate thread is in order. Like you say, the questions you listed don’t have answers that validate the watching. Yet we are commanded to watch.
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Post by witness1 on Jan 29, 2018 8:58:13 GMT -6
welcome pault ! Since you started this thread with the title of Matt24 I will role with it: 1st, as I understand, Matt 24 is Jesus answering 3 parts of a question asked by his disciples: vs 3 “Tell us, (1) when will these things happen [the temple distrusction], and (2) what will be the sign of Your coming, and (3) of the end of the age?”Has anyone ever noticed that Matthew writes down three times that Jesus warns about being deceived ? vs 4 5And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5“For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.vs 11 “Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.vs23 &24 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. Interesting BSG, I think many have been misled by false Christ's and false prophets and that still continues today. But I don't see either the false prophets or currently any false Christ's showing great signs or wonders today. Do you?Do you think this will come before or after the rapture? It's worth paying attention to in case it's before.
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Post by mike on Jan 29, 2018 9:10:14 GMT -6
witness1 , I know my reply will cause a stir but thats certainly not my intent so I'll try to be as succinct as possible. While I do believe BOTH before and after, it is the before that has caused me most concern. Of course its too difficult to really comment on the after part anyway My concern with the before part (being deceived) has to do with Charismatic and healing movements. I believe there have been many deceptions over the last 2 thousand years but now, there are many who subscribe to this theology and in my opinion are deceived already/today. I have been involved in and witnessed a many falling on the floor, barking like dogs, speaking gibberish, healing then not being healed, not having enough faith to be healed, having sin in your life so youre not healed...so in that respect I truly believe (maybe I'm the deceived one) that others are deceived. As for the post rapture part...so many speculations as to how this is going to happen its just too much to cover in any detail. Aliens & nephilim come to mind as part of that deception. But the "Kingdom of God" thread by Silent Knight also has plausibility to it, if you've read that you'll likely understand. EDIT-I dont think i clarified very well after re-reading...My concern is not exclusively with those "movements" but they are examples of what I have been exposed to. I'm sure there are others
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pault
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Post by pault on Jan 29, 2018 13:45:31 GMT -6
Hi everyone, thanks for your comments and ideas, all very welcome and very interesting. Just replying generally here and with a few specifics. These days we are seeing some very peculiar things when it comes to church experience. I don't know how much of what we are seeing has ever happened in the past, now there's a study in itself which someone might like to look into. Gold teeth, gold dust, barking like a dog, clucking like a chicken, rolling on the floor, all these things seem to have no real value when it comes to living a holy and righteous life. Give me Gods word any day over gold dust. Now what I'm thinking of is have we seen the end of real miracles, at least in the west, is it that there are far more counterfeits these days, so much so that real cases are obscured or hidden. My understanding is that Jesus did miracles on the earth first of all as a sign of who he was and secondly because of his great compassion, still the same today but very rare. Just a few thoughts to move on with.
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